Part 1: Detroit’s Comeback, Philly’s Resurrection, and Celtics Questions With Zach Lowe

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. [00:13] Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. [00:17] Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. [00:20] Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. [00:29] *music* [01:00] The Bill Simmons Podcast. We are live... [01:03] on Netflix [01:04] Zach Lowe is here. Zach Lowe doing double duty this weekend. He did a little brief podcast after. [01:09] Game 7. [01:10] Not game seven. [01:11] Game 7. Game 7! [01:13] Celtic Sixers. Yeah, the Celtic season is over. You know that, right? That was game seven. It felt like game nine. [01:20] Wait, before we start. [01:21] Wanted to mention new rewatchables coming tomorrow. It is... [01:25] Netflix is a joke month, so we're doing some comedies. [01:29] We did There's Something About Mary.

[01:30] It's going to be running tomorrow. [01:32] And, uh, [01:34] Let's see, what do they have on the service this month? Slapshot, Fletch, 48 Hours, Mrs. Doubtfire. [01:39] Meet the Parents, Long Came Polly. We've done episodes on all of those already. They're on Netflix. Ghostbusters, Kindergarten Cop, we just did. [01:47] Tropic Thunder, Tootsie Splash, and Borat. Wow, that is a... All available. Heavy hitters. Wonder what's going to happen. Anyway, Orlando Detroit just happened. It did. Not a lot of comedy in this series, unless you like tragic comedy. Tragic comedy? [02:03] Yeah, that's a phrase. [02:06] Detroit wins going away. We have two teams that came back from 3-1. [02:11] in a round one. I'm just going to throw a bunch of stuff for you. Things that happened just in the last five days. [02:17] Okay. [02:19] Joker got bounced by McDaniels, Gobert, [02:22] Shannon and zombie Mike Conley. [02:25] That was the thing that happened. Atlanta fell behind 72 to 22 in a do or die home game. [02:31] Orlando blew a 24-point lead in a game six clincher for them with a 19-point second half. [02:37] LeBron at age 41 was the best guy in a playoff series. [02:41] Embiid won a game seven. [02:43] Paul George outplayed Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown in a playoff series. I think that debatable, but I'm going to throw it in there. [02:50] Cade and Maxie have now jumped A-level? [02:53] up into some [02:55] Getting near the final level of levels, the Brown Tatum era, for all we know,

[03:00] Could be over. We'll talk about that later. [03:03] And then two teams came back from 3-1 Just some of the things that have happened Orlando Detroit Friday night is the weirdest thing That happened all playoffs though [03:12] Just bizarre. 19 points in the second half in a must-win game. [03:18] So I watched that game, and obviously you're digesting as it happens that the Magic have not made a basket in quite a long time. Another miss, another miss, another miss. [03:28] For some reason, I didn't realize until after the game had ended that they had only scored 19 points in an entire half of basketball. Like, I just didn't put to do the math in real time. And I looked at the box score. [03:39] And I just stared at it. [03:41] Like the Mona Lisa had appeared in my house. I just sat there in silence and... [03:46] For like 30 seconds, looking at 11... [03:49] Eight. [03:50] next to each other and being like, is that even possible? And look, if not for a late run of full court press and Detroit comedy turnovers at the end of this game, we would have been looking at like... [04:01] 105 points combined over six quarters of basketball for an NBA playoff team. And it ended up being, I think, 113 instead. But still, I mean, like 113 points in six quarters is kind of a problem. I know Franz Wagner is out. That's a big deal, but not great. I screenshotted the second half box score of Orlando. And I think I'm just going to keep it

[04:31] 108 was the field goal percentage. [04:34] They were two for 18 from three. [04:36] They had 17 rebounds and Detroit had 34. [04:40] I said half as many. [04:41] Seven turnovers. Paolo and Bain combined were two for 20. [04:46] Suggs was 0 for 6. And Bain was minus 39 and a half. [04:53] And just one half minus 39. [04:55] It's really, really special. The fact that they didn't cover [04:59] or even cover a double-digit spread. They lost by 14. They were up 24 early in the third quarter. It was an at-home. It was an amazing collapse. They were laughing. [05:10] at the Pistons. I mean, literally, Duncan Robinson, remember, I think he threw an inbounds pass out of bounds all the way to the other sideline. And Desmond Bain grinned in his face, like cackled in his face. Wendell Carter Jr. was laughing. They were mocking the Pistons up 24 in that game. And then they missed, I don't remember, it was like two dozen shots in a row. They just could not make any baskets for a team that's been a horrendous offensive team now for a long time. [05:40] It's funny, like, how would you regard this, right? Like, it was a disaster season, disaster season. Everyone's heard all the time. It doesn't gel. It doesn't gel. Then it gels, and they blitz the Hornets in the play-in tournament, the team that, like, all of the NBA world outside of Orlando was rooting for the Hornets to get into the playoffs. They go up 3-1 against the number one seed, and it's like, all right, this is the team— [05:59] 50 and a half over under, they got their mojo back. Maybe the Mosley-Bancaro thing is fine. Wow. And then they lose the next three games in increasingly dispirited fashion. And do you look at this like, well, we lost to the number one seed,

[06:13] In seven games without our best or second best. I guess after this Palo game, I would say second best player. Yeah. That's not that's not so bad. Or is it still bad? It's a it's a it seems very bad right now in the moment. [06:30] Thank you. [06:31] Well, think about a week ago. [06:33] Thank you. [06:33] So I remember talking to my dad. [06:37] after the Celtics were up 3-1 and just being like, see, I told you we wanted to play Philly over Orlando. [06:44] That was the contest, right? That was seven days ago. [06:46] So many things flipped in eight days, like the Knicks... [06:51] All their fans were in complete panic when they were down 2-1. They have this must-win game, Game 4 in Atlanta. [06:57] And it feels like... [06:59] If this game goes wrong, we could just see the Knicks completely blow everything up. Now they're the favorites to win the East, like pretty convincingly. And then Orlando and Philly basically switch places. I had, before we get into game seven, I had some big picture stuff. [07:12] And you brought up Franz. [07:14] Does Orlando win this series if he doesn't get hurt? Because I feel like they win game six. I do feel like they had figured out at least something with him defending Cade that, [07:26] made it reasonable to shut down Detroit offensively at least a little bit. Once Franz was out, Cade went basically apeshit. [07:35] Uh, [07:36] Up 3-1, you would say they probably do, I think, but I... [07:41] I don't really care, honestly. Like,

[07:44] He gets injured and the entire team other than Bancaro. And Bain was good for the bulk of the series and okay today. Got some points late when it was out of hand. He was okay. He was okay. I'm going to give him okay. I'm not going to give him four first-round picks good. Well, I mean, that's the bigger picture is that, yeah, Franz goes out and he's defending Cade pretty well. He's a well-rounded offensive player. The fit with Bancaro has never been great, but the talent is the talent. [08:14] basketball team, and they're paying Jalen Suggs $32 million next year. He has four more years left on his contract. He can't make a shot. Anthony Black... Not only can he not make a shot, his shots are going left, right, [08:27] Long, short, [08:29] You almost don't know which direction they're going. It's like a compass. Anthony Black is extension eligible, and I don't even know where to begin with negotiating that contract. I know where I'd begin with if I were his agent. They are paying... [08:43] Bain, Bancaro, and Wagner... [08:46] like $135 million combined next year. They're in the tax, right? Next year, no matter what happens. They're way... They might be double tax. Jet Howard, they declined his fourth-year option for next season. He was a fairly important first-round pick. Jace Richardson, now he's the 25th pick, couldn't get on the floor. Tristan Da Silva kind of role got scrunched a little bit toward the end of the series. And then if Suggs is just... [09:13] If Suggs is going to be the $32 million glue guy, elite-level glue guy, like the Derek White—we'll talk about Derek White series—the Derek White of the Magic, once every three weeks for two games, then that contract is a borderline disaster. And his shooting in this series was like—

[09:32] it's just not acceptable for a guy in that role. I'm sorry. [09:36] He didn't used to be nearly as bad of it. I don't know what happened to him in this series. [09:41] The shots were so bad, it made you wonder, was he hurt? [09:44] Yeah, so Utah, they just started, Paolo kicks in next year, the five for 240, whatever that is, and then Franz, year two. [09:51] He's got four for 184 left. [09:53] Baines at 39-42-45. Brutal. And then you mentioned the Suggs. They also have Carter at 18-19. And they have Batase at 7.5 next year. So they have... [10:04] Really no outs to get under the tax unless you trade Suggs and get a $4 million guy back, something like that. They are also missing all their picks. They have 27. They have 31. [10:16] And in 2029, they can swap with Memphis, but it's Memphis' call. And that's all they have for picks because of the Bain trade. Do you think – I still want to dive into this game seven. But do you think that after Bain and Bridges – [10:30] These trades are just done now. This was like this thinking outside the box zag thing. [10:36] We're close. [10:38] These picks aren't going to matter anyway. This is a way for us to elevate our team and go to another level, but we're not getting an all-NBA player, maybe not even an all-star. [10:48] I mean, it's not a coincidence. I don't think that both those teams are in the East. Right. And the East sort of has this this openness to it that convinces these teams who have not really done anything. I mean, Orlando has not really done anything in the Bay Mona playoff series with this group of guys like it convinces them that like we can jump all the way from that to if you're trading for first round picks for an in his prime late 20s veteran.

[11:09] You're saying, like, we think we can make the finals... [11:12] right now, I thought that trade was fine for them because I liked it for them, to be honest with you, because I just didn't know [11:19] What other direction, what other player were they going to get that fit everything that they needed? We all knew that they had overpaid, but it was the sort of, but then you look at the opportunity costs, they're stuck now. Like they don't have a lot of outs other than trading. [11:32] You never want to be in a position where you're out is trading one of your best players from a position of like, we don't really have anything else to do. And that's kind of where they are. I want to say I like the Bain trade when it happened. I did too. Because I thought... [11:49] I hate putting it this way, but I honestly thought he was better. [11:53] Like even what you saw with Franz out, I thought there were moments. Remember there was that stretchy out of Memphis where he was like running their offense and scoring 25, 27 a game. I actually wanted to see what that would look like. [12:06] on this team with those two guys. And then they had, it was a classic... [12:10] Not enough plates to... [12:13] at the table for everybody's situation sometimes. And you could see him kind of step back. He'd step up, he'd step back. I thought this would be like, okay, Franz is out. [12:21] it's Desmond Bain time. And it's just, well, maybe he's not that guy. I don't know. What do you see? It's not only not enough plates. It's like, um, [12:30] Everyone is trying to get the same food or food is being tossed. It's like the main guys just don't fit very well together. [12:38] And Paolo is a classic, like, he has the game and style of a number one offensive player.

[12:45] because he doesn't have the game and style of a number two offensive player because of the shooting liabilities, but he's just not good enough at the number one offense, despite a brilliant game today when no one else is with him. He's just not at that level as a number one guy yet. Maybe he'll get there someday. And so you just don't, [13:01] The whole team's offense just feels... [13:05] amorphous, unformed, lack of identity, lack of cohesion, lack of understanding on a lot of possessions of what they want to do. And all of that just coalesced into that second half of game six where... [13:18] They just... [13:19] Did all the wrong things, attacked all the wrong matchups, missed all the wrong shots, and just had no plan B on any possession after one action. And that's just, it's just a weird mix of guys. [13:33] And you want to keep saying, well, if they're healthy, if they're healthy, if they're healthy. Even when they've been healthy, it just hasn't worked well enough on offense. [13:40] Game six, second half, was a good example of it. It's nice to have... [13:44] An old school guard on your team that can be like, come on, guys. [13:48] calm down. It could be zombie Mike Connelly. It could be anybody, but [13:52] I think they're probably expecting black... [13:55] Who I think had some moments this year, and even in this playoff series had a couple moments, but I think for where they needed him to be, he just couldn't get there. But he's a weird team. He's the same issue as Paolo, just many tiers down the league hierarchy, in that he is... [14:10] like an on ball creator kind of player. [14:13] but just not good enough to do that a lot at a high level and doesn't have the jump shot yet. I mean, he shot it much better this year, but he's never going to shoot it at volume or he hasn't yet to be an off ball. Like it just, there's just a lot of pieces that don't,

[14:28] fit together to add up to more than the sum of their parts, which we knew. Like, this has not been a good offensive team ever in this era. [14:36] Sometimes you got to rise to the challenge. [14:38] Like me today, I'm incredibly hungover. [14:41] I can't even tell you what happened yesterday, but there were a lot of drinks and it was bad. And I'm fighting through it today. And maybe the audience barely knows, except for the nine times I stammered when I could remember it was a game seven yesterday, Philly and Boston. I chalked that one up to... [14:58] You're having a tough emotional time. That's that's I just I gave you I give you some grace on that one. Well, it's my daughter's 21st birthday yesterday. [15:07] And we decided to go to a bar in Manhattan Beach and watch the Celtic game. And drinks ensued. [15:13] And then the game was tense and... [15:18] We're going to talk about that later. Her first Zoe's first drink ever. [15:22] Yeah. It was the 21st birthday. Midnight, midnight Friday night was the first official legal in a bar. Here's my ID drink, which is always fun. Always nice to be there for those. Um, [15:31] Big picture for Detroit, because they were great today. They finally got an awesome Tobias Harris game in a must-win situation. Love it. I was thinking about Doc Rivers, because I think his two favorite... [15:41] players he's probably coached in the last 15 years where [15:44] Maxie and Harris and both of those guys were awesome. Maxie we'll talk about later. Hey look, I don't want to get too far ahead and I don't know that this outcome is particularly likely but we are one round away from a

[15:58] entire city of Philadelphia versus Tobias Harris conference matchup. Oh my God. It is possible. Well, he was great. He had 17 the second quarter. They had a 40 points second quarter. [16:10] And, uh, [16:11] And it was basically Tobias and Cade. Dern was at least rebounding. I don't know what's happened to him offensively. Again, I voted for him second team on NBA. [16:20] And he's just completely lost his confidence with like the little quick jump hooks and [16:25] I don't know. And it's beyond like, oh, Orlando's doing something. He just seems spooked to me. And that would be the biggest red flag I would have. We don't know who they're playing yet in the next round, but. [16:37] The fact that he's just [16:38] a complete mess from four to eight feet around the rim. I don't really fully understand what happened to him. Yeah. I mean, part of it is what Orlando has been doing since game one, which is we're going to go under every Cade pick and switch and at the same time and take away your rolls to the rim. And every roll to the rim felt like, um, like just, oh my God, that's what the whole regular season looked like. And we haven't seen it. And then like one would happen per game. You'd be like, oh my God, it's like an alien landed in my backyard. Jalen Dern got a free roll [17:08] head and [17:10] It just feels like every time he gets the ball with a smidgen of an opening in the paint, he's just almost throwing it up there, like rushing it up there. Yeah, it's like these quick shots. There is no touch on it, but I will give him credit. He pounded the offensive glass today, which if they're going to switch against him, he has to do. And his rim protection was pretty goddamn solid the entire series, to the point that the outcry among some Pistons fans for more Isaiah Stewart, less Jalen Duren, even start Isaiah Stewart, kind of petered out. And so does Isaiah Stewart's minutes.

[17:40] And we got more Paul Reed and we got look, we all like Isaiah Stewart's a fun NBA character. We all enjoy seven minutes today. I mean, these fouls where he's just throwing people to the ground and running them over is just you're hurting your team. I understand it's like you're it's your identity. It's the role you play on the team. But there's a way to do that without. And Mo Wagner is a good actor, probably exaggerated, but like you just can't play like that. And I think even J.B. Bickerstaff is like, dude, come on. [18:05] Well, and then you have Cade, who... [18:07] in game five as 45 minutes. [18:11] And just single-handedly drags them through that game. [18:14] Game six in the second half, 24 points, nine rebounds, four steals, nine of 10 from the free throw line, and then 32. [18:22] and nine today. So this goes from, hey, do you think it'll be 100% [18:27] for this Orlando series to... [18:30] hey, this is why he probably would have been number four or number five for MVP. He would have been an absolute first-team NBA guy. And I just thought he was incredible. I mean, that's everything. Him and Maxie, everything you would want from your best guy in a playoff series. [18:45] He was great. He hit threes and teams are going to dare him to shoot threes. And he knows that. And he hit enough of them in this series. Defensively, he guards Paolo now and then. Like he'll guard up, he'll guard down. He plays hard. He makes plays at the rim. He plays really occasionally like any star player. He'll get a little bit unfocused away from the ball and try to rest a little bit. But he plays really hard on both ends of the floor. And the other guy. [19:08] The sort of pendulum of referendums on this type of player...

[19:12] is so interesting because [19:14] It's hard to be a non-shooting perimeter player in the playoffs. We all know that. We all know what happens to them. We need a name for those guys. I feel like the Thompson twins. I feel like Asar Thompson fought through that. [19:30] and was undeniably a major asset for the Pistons coming back and winning this series. Just unbelievable defensively, flying everywhere. And they started using him more in the offense as a screener, as a cutter, as a DHO guy. And I think that's what you have to do when teams ignore them. And he's this spectacular of an athlete. It looked after two or three games like, oh, another non-shooter is going to be kind of exposed in the playoffs. And Asar Thompson fought through that. He was plus 12 today. I think he was plus 13 or 14 coming into the series. [20:00] big part of their comeback. [20:02] Thank you. [20:03] You know, I looked up before... [20:05] So they're 16 for 33 today on threes, Detroit. [20:10] Woo. Heading into this, I looked at the basketball reference where they have the series stats and they have everybody ranked in different categories on their playoff page. Detroit was 16th in three-point percentage heading into today, 29.7%. [20:23] So they finally had a game where they hit some threes. [20:26] And what's interesting is Duncan Robinson felt like he missed like six wide open ones. So it really could have been like a 22 for 33. So, um, yeah. [20:34] Good game for them. Not sure. [20:37] if it was an aberration three-point shooting game. Because I don't, other than Duncan Robinson, and even like Cade's been a little spotty. I don't know how many people I trust in,

[20:46] in big moments. We will see. It's still an amazing, amazing, amazing comeback for them. [20:50] And then for Orlando... [20:52] Is it fair to say Mosley has completed the... [20:56] Definitely getting fired. [20:58] and probably has saved his job, definitely getting fired. Triple Axel? We don't see this very often. I was thinking about that in Game 6 and Game 7, and... [21:09] If you were Orlando's front office and you had been [21:12] leaning toward firing him before the play-in tournament and everything like that, I think you'd have to lean that way again because the offense is just so rudderless and without any cohesion at all. At some point, something has to change. I think their pivot [21:30] is one of the more interesting stories of the off season. And it has to go beyond a coaching change if that happens. Um, [21:36] And I just don't know. I don't know what it is. I don't know what, what their move is to, to shake this roster up in a way that makes it more functional and, [21:45] Well, you know what doesn't make sense is trading Giannis for Paolo. [21:49] Who does it not make sense for? [21:50] Orlando. [21:52] Because it doesn't get them any closer to being anywhere. I'd rather just keep hallow and see how this plays out. You look at their roster around... [22:00] Palo slash Giannis and it's undeniable that you would kind of feel there's just not enough shooting and you know who knows what and I'd also have to probably put more stuff in that so that was a really fun fake trade during the season but I think that one has now expired and I got not much other stuff to put in it right like my picks went out in the Bain trade my young guys aren't playing much like I don't other than Anthony Black and I don't know what else I got

[22:24] No, your move this year is we like this team. [22:28] We're going to change coaches. We're going to see how this goes. Paolo is no longer a poison pill guy. We want to see what this looks like. [22:35] for the first half of the year and then we'll figure it out. But I think, and, [22:40] By the way, as... [22:41] Billy Donovan? [22:44] No inside info, but this is the kind of team I would want to coach if I was Billy Donovan and I wanted to keep coaching in the NBA. [22:51] A lot of young assets. It's almost like an older college team. Well, he's certainly been linked. There's an identity. The rumor mill has certainly linked him to this job potentially. Obviously, there's the Florida... [23:02] connection. Don't you think Billy Donovan... [23:04] when he thinks of what type of team he'd like to coach if he stayed in the NBA, is it just like anything but the Bulls? It's just like anything's going to feel great. Just any other job's going to feel fantastic. [23:17] Or he probably looks at all the guys he had on the roster the last couple years and wonders – [23:23] Maybe we should have made a run. [23:25] Kobe White and Io, all these dudes. Let's not even do it. [23:30] We're going to take a break. I have a very important big... [23:33] picture question for you about the league. And then we're going to rehash, sadly, the Celtics Sixers. [23:40] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. [23:42] It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. Fando wants to bring you closer. [23:46] to the court to make all of that action. [23:49] come to life for you. [23:51] the basketball fan. Fandle, the best place to bet the team's players' plays during NBA postseason, build a same-game parlay for a shot at a bigger

[23:59] pad or [24:00] Try live betting. [24:02] and jump into the action. [24:04] right after tip-off, whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app. [24:09] Right now. [24:11] Play your game. [24:12] 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. [24:23] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. [24:26] You know what my favorite thing about the playoffs is? [24:29] I like... [24:30] And it's usually maybe a game four, might even be a game five. Game seven, everyone's nervous. There's a different level of energy. But game four, game five. [24:38] For one of the two teams, there's this realization with like five minutes left in the fourth quarter. It's like, uh-oh. [24:46] Our fate is suddenly... [24:49] in real flux right now. Who's stepping up? What are we going to do? Let's calm down. [24:54] Can we rise to the moment or are we going to shrink from it? It's as great as opening up [24:59] of Michelob Ultra, a nice cold one, crisp, refreshing, the ultimate prize. Plus, as the official beer partner of the NBA, they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, [25:10] custom merch, [25:11] And more. [25:12] You could be at one of those games when the pressure rises. Miklo Bultra, superior is worth playing for. [25:18] Enter now. [25:19] at Michelob Ultra. [25:21] dot com slash. [25:23] Courtside. [25:24] Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526, no purchase necessary, open to U.S. Residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details.

[25:43] All right, we're going to talk Celtics-Tixers, but I have a big picture question for you because we almost saw Orlando, they had just taken care of business in the second half and 18 would have won. [25:54] And then a seven seed would have won, which they did with Philadelphia. And then a six seed won with Minnesota, even though they lost multiple people. [26:02] It's, [26:03] And listen, this isn't the first time this topic has brought up about regular season versus playoffs. And we know they're two different sports. [26:10] I think the thing that has changed for me [26:13] is wondering like if I was in charge of a team, [26:16] How much value would I even put in the regular season anymore? And would my only goal be to have everybody healthy in April? And would I not care about seeds at all? [26:25] Right? Because even when you talk about Denver, Minnesota, it's like, [26:28] shit, they won. If they had lost, they could have played Lakers-Houston, and that was where seeds matter. [26:35] I think you could look at the season and be like, you know what? None of the seeds really mattered at all. [26:40] except. [26:42] Who's going to have game seven, Thunder Spurs? Because that's going to be the only series that really ultimately matters, right? Other than that, put anyone in any seed and we probably would have had competitive series. [26:51] with any of the other 14 teams for the most part. And I'm just wondering, like the Celtics... [26:57] If they had to do this over again, [27:00] How much of the stuff would they have done differently knowing what they know now? Well, what's, what's stuff like just lighting the load on Derek white. So he's not whatever happened, worn out or whatever the hell happened to him. And this, I'm talking Derek white, 10 less games. Yeah.

[27:13] 300 less minutes. Jalen, eight less games, 400 less minutes. [27:17] Tatum, 30-minute max the entire time. And that's, I mean, I've been saying this on the pod for weeks now. [27:24] putting the minutes on Tatum like they did, I feel like that caused the injury. I'm always going to feel that way. It made no sense to me as they were doing it. [27:33] Him playing 43 minutes in one game and 40 and another in the playoffs. I just thought it was insane. Don't you think part of that, there had to have been some sports science behind that. If we're going to actually ramp him up for big playoff minutes, we've got to ramp him up in the regular season. We have to sort of give him heavier minutes loads than you would expect. Did you see his quotes today, though? [27:53] His quotes today were basically like, yeah, my right leg's not as strong as my left leg yet. You figured this was going to happen. He had... [28:00] There was one quote in there that made me wonder, like, damn. This is what he said. [28:06] It was just unfortunate timing, but I guess a little bit to be expected, right? I was away for 10 and a half months, and then I came back, and I'm playing every other day. I was playing 36 to 40 minutes, so it's not unusual that something would come up. [28:18] Um, [28:20] It was inevitable at some point I was going to have to deal with something that kind of came at the worst possible time. Was it inevitable? [28:26] Shouldn't they have just played this 20, 30 minutes? Look at how the Spurs... [28:30] have treated Wembe Nyama basically his whole career, but especially this year. [28:34] They've been adamant about not trying to put too many miles on him. And conversely, I look at Denver. [28:39] And I know Joker had to make the All-NBA run, which probably in retrospect was a bad idea.

[28:44] But they're just putting all these miles on Yoko Jomuri, who immediately – [28:49] you know, looked like they ran out of gas in the first round. [28:53] So would you rethink how you treat the playoffs versus the regular season just [28:58] holistically, [28:59] from what we're watching right now. First of all, this entire conversation is music to Adam Silver's ears. How can we make the regular season matter even less and seem less relevant for like an unending slog of six months of games? Like, please, let's have more teams think this way. There need to be fewer games. We know there need to be fewer games. Everybody knows and agrees there need to be fewer games. But we know that's not happening. No, no one is actually willing to make whatever sacrifices necessary to do that. So then we're stuck in this situation where, yeah, [29:29] regular season. [29:30] different types of players have different kinds of playoff experiences than in the regular season, like the 16-game versus 82 kind of players that Draymond Green famously said a few years ago. And the gap is getting bigger. Kirk Goldsberry wrote about this for The Ringer last week. The gap in style between the regular season and the playoffs is just getting wider and wider to the point that they are the same sport but very different versions of it. And, I mean... [29:56] Sure. Ideally, you would, if you could just know... [30:01] I'm going to be a top six seed. So at least I'm not in the play in tournament because you can't risk that no matter what you can't really risk it. Philly, Philly got what? 30, 30 games out of Embiid. How many did he actually play? [30:13] He played... [30:14] Some amount of Embiid games. 38 games. Paul George took a 25-month suspension vacation.

[30:22] for whatever he did and came back and looked better than ever and looked like 2021 Paul George. The only people they put real minutes on the whole season were Maxie and Edgecombe. Maxie played a lot of minutes. He ended up only playing 70 games. [30:34] But he played 38 minutes a game. He led the league. Vijay was a rookie, played 35, but that's young legs. [30:39] But none of it mattered because for [30:43] Five games in the playoffs, they had their team. [30:46] It's really just shocking how quickly Philly just materialized. Like, oh, this is the dream Philadelphia 76ers team that we never thought we would see. And like, oh, my God, here it is. Like, Joel Embiid is firing behind the back passes to Kelly Oubre, who's dunking and everyone's going crazy. And Tyrese Maxey's roasting everyone. [31:06] Even in real time, [31:09] People still weren't believing it when it was happening. [31:11] The Celtics were, I think, minus 2,200 after game four. [31:15] Even after they lost game five, they were minus 1100. [31:19] which House and I were both like, whoa, that seems crazy. And then in game seven without Tatum, they were six and a half point favorites, the Celtics. [31:27] I thought that was going to be a 50-50 game. I didn't think anybody should be favored. I was shocked by that. But nobody believed in Philly until they did it. I mean, we all have Philly fans in our lives. We have some at the Ringer and Spotify. I have just random... I've had random Philly fans that I have not heard from in months reach out in the last 48 hours. They're just... [31:47] As shocked as everybody else. The ones that are reaching out to me are like, I can't, I'm just walking around with a big grin on my face. I can't even believe what's just happened. I'm in shock is a word that multiple of them use. They just, they, even they are like this, this happened. Like this team just suddenly clicked into place like this. I can't believe it.

[32:04] It was incredible to watch as it was happening. Game two... [32:08] I just thought the Celtics played like crap and Philly made some threes. That wasn't alarm. But game five, I was alarmed and talked about it in the pot after game six was equally alarming. You look at, [32:17] The last second half of Game 5, Game 6, Game 7... [32:21] Philly basically dominated those three games. I mean, they were up, I think, 15-plus in all the games. The Celtics never really had a lead ever. Always felt like they were... [32:30] playing come from behind basketball. And there's a few things I'm shocked by. [32:38] One, um... [32:40] One was just [32:42] How kind of competent Embiid looked. Like he wasn't doing, we've seen him come back from not playing and he falls down a lot. And you always think like the next one, [32:51] He was, I thought, pretty good. That was about as good as you're going to get from him. Defensively, protecting the glass, some of his passing. I just thought he played well. I was really surprised by that, right? He was outstanding on both offensively, especially. Defensively, it can come and go for him a little bit. But he was moving around a lot, very well in games five and six. Game seven was good enough. And offensively, he was absolutely brilliant in that game. And Paul George... [33:16] who I guess was sick in Game 7, but Paul George... [33:21] just was the equal of Brown and Tatum in a lot of these minutes and quarters. Game seven, maybe not as much, but that one was shocking. Kelly Oubre's defense was... [33:32] Which I was like, ah, he's not bad. He gives an honest effort. Like he was invaluable.

[33:37] Um, [33:38] And then, you know, just riding Maxey. The one thing you could have predicted, and we did our most intriguing players draft, [33:45] And I think I took Maxie as my leap guy because I was like, this is – [33:48] Fits the profile of... [33:50] if somebody was going to make the massive leap, [33:54] He kind of checks a lot of those boxes. [33:57] He was awesome. And if you think about the next series, them versus the Knicks... [34:04] If they win, it'll be because he's the best player in the series, which sounds like stupid and cliche, but that's usually the best player usually wins the series. [34:11] And they would need him to just go nuts in the series, I think. I think the Knicks can throw some stuff in a bead. I don't know if Paul George can do that again. Edgecombe, one game, you had that stat. What was he, 0 for 16 in the losses from threes? [34:24] That wasn't me, but yeah, it swings hard with Vijay's three-point shot. Yeah, he's trick-or-treat from three, which is fine. But I'll tell you what's never trick-or-treat with him. [34:33] absolutely fearless and is just unafraid of any of these big moments, wants the ball and in, in transition, um, [34:41] For a guard who's not huge... [34:43] He has just meteorically risen into like, he's one of the five most terrifying players in transition in the entire league. You just, it doesn't even matter if somebody's back, if that guy's bigger than him, if he's got a head of steam, he's going to finish over you and there's just nothing you can do about it. [34:58] Yeah, it reminds me of some of the all-time great transition guards we've had. [35:03] that you knew in the first year, like Rose and Westbrook were both like this? [35:06] Westbrook just taking over like, Jesus.

[35:09] like shout out like a cannon um [35:13] I thought Nick Nurse was awesome in this series. And conversely, I thought Mazzola was bad. And we can talk about that now or later. I was going to say, I've been waiting to hear you weigh in on... [35:23] I thought Missoula was incredible in the regular season. It was honestly, I voted for him for Coach of the Year. I thought he was incredible. I would have too. [35:31] And I don't know what they were thinking with this playoffs. I have... [35:35] So many questions. [35:37] And look, [35:39] Did Philly win this series or did Boston blow it? I think the answer is both. [35:45] Um, [35:46] They went back to their 2024 style without the same players is my biggest issue. [35:51] They slowed it down. They didn't play with pace. They gave up on their bench. And I was saying it on the podcast at the time. I didn't really understand it. It was interesting. Jalen, after the game yesterday, was like, I actually liked how we played. I thought we looked like us. Like, that's... [36:05] That's who we were all season. That's kind of how I felt. [36:08] They gave up on the bench until they started half of it in the most important game of the season. I know. Well, that almost seemed symbolic for Joe, just to say... [36:19] I screwed up. [36:20] I did this wrong. But the problem is, so you have two different problems. One is you do the Simons for Vucevic trade. [36:26] to get under the luxury tax, which I get. And I understand all the benefits for that. But my dad, who is the most bitter I've ever heard him after a playoff series loss, I was going to have him on the podcast today. And he's so mad about the series that I decided not to have him.

[36:40] Because he's just furious at everybody. And after the game, he was like, I was going to go up to Chisholm and congratulate him for getting under the luxury tax. Like, just furious. Because not only do you not have Simons, who I think would have had... [36:52] at least a couple real moments in the series and would have mattered. He got injured, but who knows what would have happened. Well, did he get injured? I don't know. He had like a lottery injury, but [37:02] But then you bring Vucevic in, [37:04] So you have that swing. And I just thought, this is my honest feeling. [37:09] I think Missoula treated this series like... [37:12] Let's figure out what we have [37:14] for when we play the Knicks and the Pistons and whoever comes out of the West. I'm going to use this as my litmus test series. [37:20] I'm going to see what I have with Vucevic. I'm going to shorten my rotations. I'm going to try to do the 2024 thing again. And they just got away from what succeeded for them. [37:30] The bench was the superpower of this team. It was guys like Hugo and Walsh coming in and being maniacs for five, six minutes. [37:37] And he just punted on it. And then in a game seven, it's like, hey, Shireman, can you go back to being awesome like you were the last two months of the season? It's like, you've been yanking me around. Of course, he went in zero points in game seven. [37:47] This guy was a real asset down the stretch. [37:50] So I just, I really think Missoula screwed the series up, but I'm always going to think that. [37:55] I was going to say, if he was in the lab experimenting in preparation for the next round's [38:01] What was the game seven experiment? Was that like me melting things on the Bunsen burner in ninth grade chemistry class? Just like throwing a pen cap on the, oh, look, it's melting. What experiment was taking place? That was an admission of, I screwed up. I need to ride with my bench guys in the crowd. Listen, Garza starting is totally explainable to me because they're trying not to get Cade in foul trouble, right?

[38:23] And they're trying to move more of Kata's minutes against Drummond. Like, I get it. Hopefully Garza can hit. [38:28] He was great on those shows. [38:30] Three's at the top of the arc. [38:32] Missed a couple and we never saw him again. [38:34] And Shireman should have started for Tatum, and even though he was getting yanked around all series, that's who I thought was going to start. [38:40] The Ron Harper thing did catch my attention. [38:44] That one was like, huh. Because he just hadn't played. I wasn't against it. [38:51] I wasn't against it, but I was like, oh, [38:54] Okay. And I think they put them in an unfair spot, which is another thing you have to think about. [38:59] I probably would have just started [39:02] Walsh and Ben okay. But this goes to the bigger thing of like, you're playing Tatum and Brown in these big minutes. [39:08] In the first six games... [39:10] And you're not giving those minutes to the bench guys. So then when you actually need the bench guys, you're basically throwing them in cold. I just don't get it. Walsh playing only five minutes is pretty surprising. And I know he's not going to be guarded on the perimeter, although he shot okay this year. But defensively, he was far and away their best option on Maxie from the start of the season until now. And it's just like if you're going to play – [39:32] If you're going to juggle it up and play all these random dudes, it seems weird to me that [39:37] you know falling through the cracks is the one guy who's actually guarding maxi pretty well and jalen brown who done a great job against him during the season really really effective and jalen brown took the assignment in in game seven and was like fine but there was just nothing that they i mean in the end maybe it wouldn't have mattered he's max he was just too brilliant and too a multi-faceted and offensive player for whatever they threw at him but i just the whole game was just starting with tatum being not on the injury report to questionable to out

[40:07] them falling behind early, coming back late. And the whole game was just very weird. [40:12] Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? [40:21] Does this sound like you? [40:24] Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. [40:54] Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. [41:00] Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. [41:14] Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck. And the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one. Your buddy. Your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something. And maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet. Together let's drive. Visit chevy.com/trucks to explore the lineup.

[41:41] This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. [41:44] Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. [41:51] New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. [41:55] Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. [42:01] But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. [42:08] Get savings with yellow sales signs store-wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. [42:15] Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. [42:20] I knew on Thursday that we weren't going to see Tatum. I was convinced. I said it on the pod. [42:24] You could tell he was hurt. [42:26] and they weren't going to mess with it. And it was the other leg, and this is what always happens when these people have these traumatic injuries to one leg, [42:33] you know, favoring the other leg. And it's always a concern because you're putting more stress on it. And they played him too many minutes. [42:41] I mean, the big thing for me is... [42:43] I don't think they were beating San Antonio or OKC. [42:46] So it's not like, oh, we blew the title. It's more like, I just know if we did this, if you just reset buttoned this and went back [42:54] Two weeks. [42:56] And [42:57] You basically have to win those first two games. He had a feeling Embiid was going to come back midway through the series. But the way they played game two with all the threes, just letting Maxey and Edgecombe do whatever they wanted. [43:07] And then game five was, you know, even worse. But I just, I know they would have tried to mix that up.

[43:12] used a bigger bench. Even what Minnesota did against Murray, [43:17] Let's put some miles on Murray. Let's make him dribble the ball up 94 feet. You know, I know Maxey is the minutes leader in the league, but at least like, [43:24] They just made it so easy for him. I felt like he was going downhill like a running back for two straight weeks, right? [43:30] By the way, I don't know how much we're going to talk about it because it starts tomorrow, but Anthony Edwards was just upgraded to questionable for game one of that series. You mentioned Minnesota and cleared the Timberwolves said he's cleared for all basketball activities, on-court activities and upgraded to questionable. I can't. [43:46] The DiVincenzo injury is heartbreaking. It always sucks, and he's a big part of their team. I can't wait for that series. If Ant is like a full go, Ant is, you know, the last couple of games he played against Denver, he did not look like himself. He was not assertive. He was not explosive. If he's closer to himself, I mean, he's already had a 50-point game against them this year. The idea of him trying to dunk on Wemby by itself is just beyond intoxicating. [44:16] gotten to sink our teeth into because it was just we just didn't know who was going to be left of the Minnesota Timberwolves and by the way kudos for the Minnesota Timberwolves you've talked about already for finding a way to win that series against the Nuggets without so many guys that was an awesome awesome effort by them yeah and that's the thing they they figured it out [44:35] They zagged a little bit. They tried to do some different things. The Terrence Shannon thing was incredible. [44:42] Just...

[44:43] Not only just playing him, but unleashing him and just saying, go attack Jamal Murray. His legs are dead. [44:48] And conversely with the Celts, [44:51] Missoula was so good during the season, and I just didn't see the ingenuity in the same way. It really felt like he was trying to replicate 24. And I can't say this strongly enough. This was not the same. This was always supposed to be a transition year into next year again under the tax. And instead of Porzingis and Drew Holiday, [45:08] And Horford [45:11] you have guys that just aren't as good and aren't as experienced on the team and you weren't going to be able to replicate it. So I think that superpower for this team was the bench team. [45:18] and the unpredictability and the wildcard nature of just these guys that would have these [45:23] Weird heat checks. It was happening all year, and they went away from it. I said it last night. [45:28] Um, [45:29] on my reaction pod. [45:31] With Pina. [45:32] It just felt like the Sixers and the Celtics swapped players. [45:37] arcs in [45:38] in astonishingly fast fashion and that the sixes became... [45:42] the team that they were always able to be on paper, but never would be in reality. And then they became it. And the Celtics became the team that I was low on before the season. It looks so foolish for being low on because they had shed so much talent because there was so much uncertainty about their big man rotation. And all those concerns just were, [46:01] completely invalid until they were immediately valid at the most pressing possible time. I wish you how many years is your dad been a season ticket holder? [46:10] 54. [46:11] If you're absolutely furious, you, if you've been a season ticket holder for 54 years,

[46:17] You can absolutely go up to Bill Chisholm and sarcastically congratulate him on ducking all the aprons. You can gift him an apron. You should have bought him an apron with, like, congratulations. We lost him in the first round. Here's your apron. Go barbecue with this. The only way to defend it is did they know Tatum was going to look like he did? [46:37] They hoped he was going to look [46:39] A lot like it, but they didn't know when they did that move because they also didn't have to do it. [46:44] They thought Tatum was going to replace the Simons minutes, but they really miscouted Vucevic, it seems like. [46:50] Because he just was done. You could see it. The moment he showed up on the team... [46:54] Didn't look right. Got hurt, came back, didn't look right. [46:59] Came in the playoffs, was clearly a disaster matchup. [47:02] against any Philadelphia Big Bear, basically. But especially when Embiid came back, [47:08] They had to see two more games that that wasn't going to work with him versus Embiid. [47:12] And that was their big move. You know, they could have, I guess, if you're going to criticize them, they maybe could have flipped Vucevic for... [47:19] something else. But, you know, I think they thought he was, I think they thought he was going to help. Like, I really do. And it was just a misfire. And the Tatum, you mentioned the Tatum comments today about, you know, it was inevitable something would happen. I remember saying, like. [47:32] I'm a little hesitant to crown Boston as the favorites because I just, I remember making this gesture of ups and downs. There's going to be ups and downs with Tatum recovering from this injury. And there just weren't any. And I just sort of let myself believe, and I think everybody else did, that there would, I guess this is just a medical marvel. They're not going to be.

[47:52] any downs. He's playing a ton of minutes. He's playing awesome. They've been the best team in the East. And then at the worst possible time there was that we don't really even know [48:00] what happened, when it happened, what the injury is, but... [48:04] I just don't believe it was the knee either. I know they had to say that, but it was during the game. You could see it was his calf, and they had the stuff wrapped around his calf. [48:14] And, you know, I think it was unclear whether he was cleared to play or not. I thought his words were interesting about him and his trainer decided not to play. So clearly... [48:24] they didn't feel comfortable with it. And I don't think they should have. I don't think it was worth it. They weren't going to win the title this year. Let him go. But to find out after the season that [48:32] His right leg was only 85% of his left leg or whatever, or he's not going to be able to build the calf up fully until... [48:39] you know, the summer. So that's, well, why were you playing 42 minutes a game then? [48:44] The whole thing is a little bit strange, but Philly went and took the series from him. And this is, I mean, the conversation I really want to have with you is like, [48:54] So what now? Like, you're not like, like, I don't know. [48:58] I just would say what now for the Celtics? [49:02] Well, first I have to go to the doctor and see if they can find a cure for we got great looks disease. [49:10] Because that's been three of the last four playoffs of losing a game and then talking about how great the looks were after. And by the way, the looks were great because they were coming back at the end. They got four straight awesome shots and they missed all of them. And that's why they lost. So this was always my and I would go back and forth play with Mike Budenholzer about it. It was my thing with every Budenholzer team that would be eliminated from the playoffs. It was like, well, we just the shooting went against us. And it was why I would always make fun of the Celtics.

[49:40] champions of 2026. This is Daryl Morey with the Rockets. Same thing. You have four... [49:46] it's great that you had an unbelievable expected effective field goal percentage. It's awesome. That's a wonderful process. And, yeah, you just missed. Well, all you got to do is just miss – [49:57] three times in seven games and then have another game where the team outplays you substantially or whatever and then your season is over you know it's not a hundred game series it's like very finite amount of time and if this thing isn't working. [50:10] The right answer isn't always just keep doing the thing until it works. You got to have some other thing. I mean, this has been my thing with Boston forever. It doesn't, it's, they want a title. The fact is they want a title. They have a great core. I'm not sure what, if anything, they can really do in the off season. [50:26] Pritchard let them down in this series too, other than his one game four. [50:29] It's a great game for me. [50:31] Great game for, and other than that, [50:34] I forget. Hold on. I'm going to queue up his stats. [50:37] He just wasn't good enough in the series. And the shot that killed me, Jalen missed a couple. Hauser had one around the rim, but the one that killed me was... [50:46] Two minutes left. Kata makes a great [50:48] Play at the rim. [50:50] comes back down, [50:51] Kata's running the floor and Bede's jogging back. Kata's outrunning him. [50:55] Brown, it would have been a tough pass to him. There's some Celtic fans today that were like, oh, Jalen missed. [51:00] Miss Keditz, the ball ended up in the right spot. It was Pritchard in the corner. [51:04] wide open. [51:06] to take a lead, and he missed it. And I would take that shot 100 times out of 100. And if he makes that shot, I honestly think they win. I think the crowd, my dad said the crowd was as loud as,

[51:17] as any crowd they've had for a playoff game during the, during the comeback. Like he was like, the energy was electric. It was, we could not get over the hump and all we needed was that one shot and it just never went in. [51:28] But I would have taken my chances with that shot. [51:31] I would bet my life he was going to make that shot. That's why sports are so cool. And I know... [51:36] it's not a great day for Boston fans, but, [51:40] I've seen that game so many times in my head and in my life. And what happens is, [51:46] That shot goes in. [51:47] The crowd goes bananas. [51:49] And a team on the other end with a history of postseason letdowns and hiccups just sort of [51:56] melts down a little bit and the game peters out and the Celtics win. [52:00] In your soul, in my soul, like when that shot goes up, [52:04] That's what I'm envisioning. And it went completely the other way. Not only did the shot miss, but Philly and Maxi in particular. That's a three-point play. Yeah. He, like, rose up under that kind of pressure in a hostile environment and put the game to bed. It was just, like, a very against-script situation. [52:19] kind of ending. [52:20] Even in the bar, it was a, oh, it was like one of the, so I can't even imagine what it was like to be there. [52:29] Well, PJ and Maxie... [52:32] From three. [52:34] We're 45 for 95. [52:37] I don't know if that's replicable against the Knicks. And the Knicks, I mean, there's a whole bunch of reasons the Knicks are a better matchup than the Celtics were. [52:45] And beat in those four games was...

[52:49] In the game 70s, 28-9-7. [52:53] He missed 150 regular season games in the last three years. [52:58] and magically turn back into Joe Embiid at the worst possible time for the Celtics. I was thinking about it. I saw the Sixers play two games during this season. [53:06] that I thought made them intriguing as a dark horse. One was against the Celtics, and then Embiid got hurt right after that, I think. [53:13] Then there was another one. [53:15] I want to say it was against maybe the Knicks on a Saturday. [53:19] or maybe somewhere around that range when they played the Knicks and were really going toe-to-toe with them. And it's just like, man, there really is a ceiling with this team. But we all do that, right? I know, but think about it. They played six good games all year, probably, and they're in round two now. There's a reason that we just never thought we would see the apex version of this team for any prolonged period of time. And by the way, we still have to see it for a prolonged period of time because now it gets every other day for the rest of the way. And obviously, this is a pretty soft travel schedule for them, [53:49] It's an easy trip and all that. But the stat I will keep just hammering about, always Maxi, always Maxi. And in this series, Embiid is... [53:58] Those two combined for all the heavy lifting they do on offense – [54:01] 3.3 combined turnovers per game. Two per game for Embiid, who's had a history of bad turnover games in the playoffs. And 1.3 for Maxie. And Maxie never turns the ball over. It's one of his secret superpowers. He just never turns it over. And that's a... [54:16] That's an astonishingly low number for those two guys combined.

[54:20] This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. [54:49] Study, and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. [55:19] And. [55:21] Where is Maxie for you now in the best players in the league list? I'm just going to read you the best players. [55:27] Well, I had them on All-NBA, third-team All-NBA. I'm going to read you right now. Okay. [55:33] You wouldn't put them over Joker, SJ, or Wembeys, so let's cross them off. [55:38] It feels premature. [55:41] No, I mean, right now. Yeah, I know. It would feel premature to put him over those guys. You wouldn't put him over Luka? No.

[55:51] Would you put them over ant healthy? [55:53] No. [55:55] So there's six. [55:56] Would you put them over Cade? [55:58] Now that's kind of an argument. Yeah, you get into this morass of Brunson, Mitchell, Cade. [56:05] Curry is still in there. [56:08] It's just a bunch of guards that are just depending on your taste. You might have a case. You might have a case to be the number one guy in that. That's the seventh spot unless you want to put Giannis... [56:18] Over all of those guys. I think Giannis still belongs over all those guys. And, and I definitely remember Ringer 100 doing it every month. There were, there was a, a, [56:27] He was around like 10, 11, 12 a lot for me during the season. I don't know where I had him on my latest one, but I definitely remember one in particular when I moved him up like very early in the season from like 19 to 11. And it felt like, yeah, he's, that's about where he is right now. [56:42] So... [56:44] This goes back to one of my favorite dumb topics. [56:48] the all-time aberration 2020 COVID draft. [56:51] Oh, [56:53] just Zooms and maybe some illegal workouts with guys wearing masks on. [56:58] where Edwards goes first, [57:00] And then Wiseman goes second off of three college games. [57:04] LaMelo Third. [57:06] It goes Patrick Williams, Isaac Okoro, 4-5, Killinghaises, 7-5. [57:11] Denny, [57:12] is nine. [57:14] It's a great pick. Halliburton is 12. Denny must be doing great for the Wizards these days. It was a great pick by the Wizards at number nine. Yeah, they get credit for that. Your guy Poku was 17. Wait a second. My guy Poku? Your guy Poku. How did that happen? And then listen to the 20s. Okay. Tyrese Maxey, 21. Yeah. Yeah.

[57:34] Quickly, 25. Pritchard, 26. Jaden McDaniels, 28. Bain, 30. [57:39] We're going to have to do a redraft of this draft this summer for fun. This is a fucking bonkers draft. How does this happen? Well, you're just leaving out so many guys who are in the 20s. Leandro Balmaro, I literally don't even remember him. It seems like he played 49 games, whoever he was. I just have no memory of him doing anything in the NBA, not one thing. [58:04] And all Raptors fans know this draft well because they picked Malachi Flynn one spot ahead of Desmond Bain. [58:10] Well, a pick traded by the Boston Celtics. And then the second round is just pretty much a train wreck. It's Sam Merrill at 60 and... [58:20] I forgot Sam Rell was Mr. Irrelevant. That's right. Isaiah Joe's in there. Vic Kretchey. [58:27] But yeah, just the 20s of that draft. [58:30] Getting Tyrese Maxey [58:32] So, [58:33] This to, you know, my guy, Daryl. [58:36] I think not only saved this job with this series, but I think you got to look back at like, [58:41] Maxey, the edge cone pick, the Paul George, even though Embiid and Paul George were one and two in the worst contracts draft, now that's looking better. [58:49] I think Daryl sticks around now. [58:52] Oh, that's one of the ripple effects I meant to mention last night is I think Nurse and Maury both are. Oh, yeah. But the crazy thing about. . . [59:01] Maxi and Edgecombe is the Sixers were like

[59:05] Very, very close to getting neither of those guys. It took a Mike Muscala avalanche of threes on the last day of the season to flip that maxi pick into Philadelphia's possession. I forgot about that. And then at the lottery last year, it looked like they were going to give their pick to Oklahoma City. And then they moved up to number three and got Edgecombe. So this is what it turns on sometimes. It's multiple sliding doors within sliding doors. [59:32] Well, [59:33] As we discussed those sliding doors... [59:37] Is Jalen on the Celtics next year? [59:40] Okay. [59:41] Why did it take you so long to get here? This is the most exciting moment of the podcast. We're going to wrap up here and then go watch this other game and come back for part two. [59:52] So tell me the ration. Tell me... [59:55] Tell me the rationale. Do you want, if, if, if, are you trading him to just reset the finances, restock the assets and go to Jason Tatum and Derek White and be like, I know we just won. [1:00:08] 57 games or whatever. [1:00:10] that was supposed to be the gap year. This is going to signal to you that this might actually be the gap year or – [1:00:15] Are you trying for some sort of [1:00:18] three for one that fits better, one for one that fits better. Can you get younger in the trade with a cheaper guy in the spot? Are you going for it next year or are you taking a step back next year? [1:00:30] Oh, I think you're going for it next year. So then I don't know what... I'm on the record as I want Jalen Brown to play his entire crew at the Celtics.

[1:00:37] I get in arguments about him. I hate the stupid plus minus thing that goes around with him. And look, at the moment he comes out, they're way better. It didn't happen yesterday. I just like Jalen Brown. I think he plays hard and he's durable. And I think he's... [1:00:50] Aged. [1:00:51] at bat as well as you could expect from a 10-year forward in the league. [1:00:55] this would be the time to trade them right now because 57, 61, and 65 the next three years money-wise. [1:01:03] Tatum's 58, 62, and 67. [1:01:06] And if you're going to make a case to trade him, it's like, can you just afford two guys making that much money? So I've, I have not. And you want a title with them. [1:01:13] I have not sat and played around with the Jalen Brown trade machine. I suspect that you have, and you might have some ideas. I don't know, though. I haven't either, and I haven't really wanted to do it. And also, the loss just happened yesterday. But I... [1:01:26] In my head, it's something like, well, there's... [1:01:30] is the Giannis move, which I think they would be one of the contenders for Giannis. [1:01:36] And I think Jalen as an asset that either goes back to Milwaukee or goes to a third team and then that team. [1:01:41] gives their stuff to Milwaukee would be how that trade goes. Like a team like Atlanta, where he's from, [1:01:47] a team that controls... [1:01:49] Milwaukee situation with their pick this year. [1:01:53] So it's something like that. They could get super creative because they have this 27.7 million trade exception, which [1:02:00] where you could take somebody back [1:02:03] on a team that has cap space, like a Dyson Daniels, where you just take that back with Atlanta's pick, put Daniels into the trade exception,

[1:02:11] trade Jalen and now you have a max player trade except they'd have like the biggest trade exception of all time. [1:02:17] and see what you can do with that. Or you look at a team like New Orleans and could you just... [1:02:21] Go Trey Murphy. [1:02:24] Herb Jones in a contract, Trey Murphy, Jordan Poole in a pick, something like that where you're carrying the Poole contract for a year, it's expiring, but you've reset around... [1:02:34] a cheaper Jalen Brown, basically. That would be the mindset. [1:02:37] I hope they keep them together. I'm just going to say that again, and I'm going to keep saying it. But I would understand if these are the kind of discussions they're having and [1:02:45] Dark depressing rooms right now Yeah I again having not gone Through it those two teams just I'm looking at The standings over here just jumped in Jumped into my head I mean I was trying to think like Rockets flame out is there something there but I don't know what the trade would be Um [1:02:59] I didn't think of the Pelicans, actually. You kind of surprised me with that one. [1:03:06] It's interesting. [1:03:08] And I'm sure this will be a podcast topic at some point, but Utah is another one. [1:03:14] Utah. They just did a lot of stuff, though. They just made some big moves. [1:03:22] But what about, I mean... [1:03:24] Can I give you another version of this scenario? Sure. [1:03:29] What if Jalen Brown goes to the team and says, it's time, I want my own team? [1:03:33] wow is it this is just are you is that are you coping is this coping yeah this is coping it's it's been a 24 hours then i applaud your you know we've seen weirder things in the nba than jalen brown deciding i'd like my own team now you know i just something just popped a team that just popped in my head and we're about to go watch their game is like if it's just a disaster cleveland loss in this game you know this is a team that just hasn't been able to fill a wing spot with

[1:04:03] I don't know what they'll be thinking, but we'll see. We get maybe Cleveland win by 30, and then would they be favored in the next round over Detroit? I have no idea, but that would be... [1:04:13] That series is going to be wild either way, whoever it is. [1:04:17] I vote for keeping them together because we've already seen them win a title. [1:04:21] It did happen. [1:04:22] And I think that they can improve around the edges with this team, especially with the trade exception. [1:04:27] I think Hauser probably, if we're going realistic, I think Hauser gets traded because you can... [1:04:33] He's 10, 11, and 12 years. [1:04:35] I think a lot of teams could use somebody like him and you could just move Shireman and Hugo into those minutes, right? And then that 27.7... [1:04:44] I think you can get somebody good with that. And I think they'd want to bring Simons back. [1:04:48] Simon's a free agent. They have their mid-level to use. I could see him coming back. I thought they were a guard short this whole season anyway. [1:04:54] Um, [1:04:55] So I think getting a guard... [1:04:58] And figure out another big man to put with Kata would be the... [1:05:01] Two things I would look at. [1:05:03] But who knows? This is the NBA. We're prepared for anything at all times. And if Giannis is actually on the table, [1:05:09] and says at some point, like, I'd love to go to Boston and play with Jason Tatum. Like, [1:05:14] They're going to try to [1:05:15] Have conversations about that. [1:05:18] They just lost in round one. I feel the same way about Denver. Like... [1:05:22] Like Sean said today on ESPN, everyone's on the table for Denver except Jokic. They're accepting calls. And that's how they should feel. They lost in round one. [1:05:31] with one of the best players of this century, and they should be thinking that way.

[1:05:35] Yeah, that was kind of a no-shit moment, but yeah, obviously, but... [1:05:40] No, but that's significant that they said every player is on the table. [1:05:44] Yeah, because what's unsaid... Because that means Jamal Murray's on the table and Aaron Gordon's on the table. What's unsaid is Jamal Murray. I mean, Aaron Gordon, the Aaron Gordon thing is just... [1:05:52] We've unfortunately reached a point at which I don't, [1:05:55] I if I'm building the nuggets, I have to now if I were building the nuggets, I would see all the medical records, I would know everything. But from the outside looking in, I just can't assume he'll stay healthy for an entire playoffs ever, ever again. The leg stuff just crops up over and over again. I don't really know what to do with that because they're just not close to the same team without him. [1:06:15] It goes back to what I asked you 20 minutes ago. [1:06:19] Maybe your goal is just to get him healthy in April, May, June. [1:06:22] And you're treating them like a car in the garage that you just take out for a spin. But can you even do that? Like you, you, I don't know. You can find the sports science people on lots of teams. I know a lot of them who will tell you like that actually, there are, there are sports science guys who will say the players aren't playing enough because it does them a disservice to try to ramp them up. [1:06:43] to like okay now you we've been treating you with kid gloves all season the playoffs here you're going to play 42 super hard minutes every single game for the rest of the way right even if you did that with Aaron Gordon like I don't know that he would be able to stay healthy for a month straight even if you treated the regular season like a big a big nothing but anyway we're far afield and we have a game seven to another game seven coming up yeah so this is Dan a part one

[1:07:07] We're going to come back after Toronto-Cleveland, a game that I think already has had two shots and maybe... [1:07:14] a gin and tonic before it even started. I'm prepared for anything in this game. You opened this podcast by saying all the crazy stuff that has happened over the last five days, and we forgot the R.J. Barrett shot that hit the ceiling on the same goddamn rim as the Kawhi shot from seven years ago. That was... [1:07:31] up there for a long, long time and just whoop! It was a Halliburton shot, but in Toronto in Game 6. Don't forget [1:07:39] The play that led up to R.J. Barrett, [1:07:42] Evan Mobley, for some reason, being thrown the ball, even though he's the worst free-throw shooter out there, and... [1:07:48] seemed like got body checked from behind. I mean, we never saw the best possible replay of that. But all of a sudden, the ball's out of bounds, and it's Toronto's ball, and R.J. Barrett, [1:07:59] I didn't think it was going in. Did you? [1:08:01] Uh, [1:08:03] When it went, when it bounced straight up at this point, when he was releasing it, did you know it was going? No, but when it bounced on the rim, I'm now conditioned to be like it could be perfect. It could be going right up and right down. So I was actually not surprised when it went in. But yes, when Scotty Barnes sort of stumbles in there and kicks it out, you're like, it's not really what they were looking for down one. And boom, it goes in. And here we are. Game seven. [1:08:25] Alright, we're going to watch game seven. [1:08:28] and then we're going to come back for a part two. That will be a little shorter than this podcast. Thanks for letting me talk out the Celtics. Apologies to my dad for refusing to have mine. We just scratched the surface. I think there's more. Well, unfortunately, we have many more podcasts coming. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well.

[1:08:43] And we'll be back. [1:08:45] On Netflix, ironically. [1:08:47] right after game seven. See you in a little bit. [1:08:55] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBL or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call [redacted government id] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call [redacted phone] for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE. [1:09:25] HopeNY or text HopeNY in New York for Louisiana. Call [redacted phone]. [1:09:33] Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. [1:09:39] They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. [1:09:47] There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. [1:09:53] With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. [1:10:02] Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

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