Carol Burnett

[00:00] . [00:05] Welcome everyone to another episode of Good Hang. [00:07] This is a very special one for me. We have comedy legend, Carol Burnett. You know... [00:13] Carol, the star creator of, [00:16] benevolent captain of the Carol Burnett show, an incredible sketch show that changed comedy as we know it and influenced so many of us. An incredible actor in films such as the four seasons or the star turn as Miss Hannigan and Annie. You may have seen Carol in better call Saul or Palm Royale, which is out right now. There's so many things that Carol has done. And, you know, I, [00:45] And I discovered Carol from my living room watching her show with my mom. And we're going to talk about so many things today. And you know what? Don't worry about what we're going to talk about. It's going to be so good. It's Carol. It's Carol Burnett. She's here. And we can't believe it. So before we get started, we always like to talk to someone who is a friend or a fan of our guest. [01:15] everything from Carol. And today we have someone who is a super fan of Carol Burnett and I think a legend in her own right at sketch comedy. And that is friend of our pod, um, [01:27] One of my many wives.

[01:30] The great Rachel Dratch. Rachel? [01:34] How are your headphones doing? [01:41] This episode of Good Hang is presented by Uber Eats. Big news, Aldi is now on Uber Eats. And you get 20% off your first grocery order with code NEWALDI26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. [02:04] on Uber Eats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28, 2026. Terms apply. See app for details. Rachel, I want to show you. I want to show you how far I've come, Amy. Okay. [02:32] What the lessons learned. [02:35] The improvements made. Listeners, Rachel Dratch is holding up her untangled headphones. Well, I see a little tangle. There's a tiny kink. There we go. But you've always been into a tiny kink. Kinky. [02:52] Anyway, here you go. [02:54] Changes have been made and I'm ready to go. You look great, Dratch.

[03:00] Thank you. How about a little lipstick for you? You know I love you in a blue. I love my baby. Those baby blues in a baby blue. There you go. Drudge, you know, genuinely, when I was like, who can I talk to about the genius that is Carol Burnett? I thought about... [03:18] Us because we grew up on Carol. Like she feels like so influential and, [03:26] Whether she knows it or not, and I hope to tell her today, it feels like she just influenced us so much. Yeah. I mean, when you said, when you asked a question of Carol Burnett, I got a little paralyzed because I was like, she's such an icon that I got like kind of. [03:43] my brain got kind of tongue tied. I'm like, [03:46] What do you ask someone that's [03:48] had such an influence, a pillar of comedy. Yeah. I was psyched to talk to you before we were before I talked to Carol, because I actually have been kind of stressed about that. How do I talk to an icon? You know, do you remember when you first saw Carol? I mean, my first exposure was the Carol Burnett show. So I just remember like that sort of merry band of players cracking each other up, which, of course, [04:13] we did later on in our own way, but, um, [04:17] Just that, like, the joy that they all seem to be having together. [04:20] And her also like the way she would talk to the audience afterwards, like, [04:25] There was no sort of putting on airs about her. She just seemed, it seemed like... [04:29] It is like she is who she seems like.

[04:32] just a fun, regular person. No, um, sort of, Oh, a woman shouldn't be doing this. Like, which I mean, we always get asked about women in comedy and like, we always hate if we get asked that way. Cause I think when we were little, like we just saw a funny person and we weren't thinking like, and it's a girl. It was sort of just subliminal, whatever. Yeah. Unconscious, unconscious. Like you're seeing Gilda Rounder and you're seeing John Belushi and you're not thinking like, [04:56] But she's a woman doing this. You're just like getting this sort of role model. You're getting the mother bird imprint on the baby bird. Yes. So Carol Burnett was definitely like that. Just the silliness, the joy in being silly, the joy in like, [05:14] Making faces that make you look like you're not a lady. Yes. Acting like you're not a lady. Yes. Like that all was just so... [05:23] joyous and so good for girls to see. But again, I don't want to get all free to be you and me. A reference that probably nobody remembers. But they should. But they should. Look how free to be you and me. Children, you should know. You didn't know you were getting the message you were getting. It's free to be you and me. But it was, boys could have dolls, okay? Boys could have dolls. [05:45] Yeah. Carol's show at times, as like the 70s came on to the scene, like Carol's show was like, oh, like they didn't have anything. [05:53] that wasn't edgy enough or something, you know, maybe someone could say like, oh, it didn't have an edge. [05:59] But now, like with distance and time, I'm like, I think that's what was drawn, why I was so drawn to that show. Exactly what you just said. It looked like everyone was having fun.

[06:10] Like, I don't think when we were growing up at times, I thought that comedy was actually going to be fun. [06:18] I know that sounds stupid, but it was like it felt like it had to have. Yeah, it just had to have drama attached to it. And she was such an example of like comedy could be fun and fun. [06:29] you could be a nice person doing it. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah. And just like full tilt, [06:37] clowns, you know, like clowning around, you know, like when she did once upon a mattress. Okay. Let's talk about that. It seems like that might've been, what the hell do I know talking about this time period, but it seems like it might've been [06:50] Kind of [06:52] really like freeing and groundbreaking to have this woman getting to add all this physical comedy into this. [06:58] Part that I'm sure... [07:00] You know, it's like you're adding in so much physical comedy into that part. Physical comedy... [07:05] feels until Carol that it was kind of owned by the boys. Yeah. Did Carol feel like at the time she there were other people, other women doing physical comedy like her? Get the answer, Paula. Get the answer on that scoop. Also, you two have to compare notes. You I'm sure you have you told her that you also played Winifred in Burlington High School? [07:30] Is she aware? Thank you for bringing that up. For people that didn't listen to the very highly popular Rachel Dratch episode, and Dratch, I got to tell you something. That episode was...

[07:40] was gangbusters. [07:43] Are you getting a lot of good feedback? I'm getting a lot of good feedback about that, yes. Every time I hook in with you, I go viral. [07:52] And that doesn't mean that you get sick with a fever. That doesn't mean I get a virus. I'm not going to avoid the obvious joke here, but yeah. [08:06] We don't need more of that. We don't need more. No, every time I hook my wagon to you, [08:13] Things happen for the best. Well, thank you for hooking again. But for people who didn't, for the, I don't know, one or two people that didn't listen to that episode. Where have you been? Yeah, no kidding. Living under a rock? Check it out. And then what you'll find is that Rachel Dratch and I talk about how we were both in productions of Once Upon a Mattress when we were young people in our schools. And Carol Burnett originated the part of Winifred on Broadway. [08:43] Rachel played the more. I played the boring part of Lady Larkin. [08:49] So. Right. Who in the musical is pregnant. But when Rachel did it, because they were so young, they had to take that part out. And then I had nothing to play. [09:01] So then it got even more boring. But I know this is about Carol Brunette, but I've got to work through this. When we did our episode of Good Hang, [09:09] a lot of people commented on our obvious love for each other and friendship. That was so obvious. Cause we like left our way through the whole thing. But, um, I was, so I was kind of wondering, since I'm talking to you, like for her about her female friendships about, you know, does she have friends that are like her true blues from like before showbiz that she relies on, or even now like her, she,

[09:36] first of all, like her like non-showbiz friends or her showbiz friends, like who has, you know, been there along the way. [09:43] that is part of her journey, [09:46] that she has, um, [09:48] Kind of like, you know, the little support group with or something. I love that because... [09:53] When I was... [09:55] lucky enough to do, uh, [09:57] to [09:59] do something for her 90th birthday celebration. She watched the entire celebration holding hands with Julie Andrews. [10:10] They sat next to each other and held hands. They call each other, and I believe they call each other chum. [10:16] and I'll find out, but... [10:19] I want to ask her about Julie because they have been friends since the 60s. [10:24] Wow. And I mean, talk about our age, like, [10:28] powerhouse, like, Sound of Music, Mary Poppins, Carol Burnett, and their friends? Come on, chums. You and... [10:38] I've always said that you... [10:41] are my Julie Andrews. And, you know, I, uh, the other friendship that I want to talk to her about is her and Lucille Ball. Yes. They were buddies. Lucille was, you know, kind of a mentor to her. She was, [10:55] probably, [10:56] in her 40s when she met Carol in her 20s, but came backstage after... [11:02] um a performance of once upon a mattress and said like you got it kid oh

[11:08] Wow. I know. I feel like there's a direct line between a lot of the women who, [11:13] I know who I worked with who love Carol, like Kristen Wiig, who works with Carol on Palme Royale and talked about on this podcast that she like burst into tears when she met her. [11:23] you, me, Maya, Tina, like we all, Anna, we all, Molly, we all feel like we just [11:31] watched Carol. Well, Amy, you're so good at talking to people. You've met her too, but [11:37] I always admire how good you are at talking to the [11:41] The idols and icons. Well, I'm talking to one right now. I'm talking to one right now. [11:48] You're doing a great job. All right, Rachel Dratch, I know you're busy. What are you having for dinner tonight before I let you go? Oh, I don't even know. Well, I know you've got some Broadway plans tonight. Enjoy your night in the town. New York City, Rachel is out and about. Yes, she is. Yes, she is. [12:04] New haircut, looking great. All right, bud. Thank you. Thank you for doing this, Strachie. [12:10] All right. See ya. Love you. Bye. [12:30] In my Subaru Hybrid, that's right, I have one and I love it. That extra mile is built right in with longer range and better fuel efficiency than ever before. The Subaru Forester Hybrid and the Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid. Great cars. I have them both. Love goes the extra mile. Visit Subaru.com slash hybrid to learn more.

[12:55] Hi, Carol. Love you. Love you. First of all, you look... [12:59] Wonderful. [13:00] Back at you, honey. I'm so happy to see you. I mean, I got the chance to see you in person maybe longer than I'd like to admit, maybe like a year or two ago. I don't think I've seen you. Well, I think you – I gave you an award. At the 90th. At the 90th. And then we did it when you presented me with an award. I got to say nice things about you, which is the best. Yes, you did. Thank you. And I just want to get this out of the way, Carol. You are everything to me. [13:30] And you are a living legend. And it is really... [13:35] Very emotional for me to get to talk to you. I'm thrilled that you're here and it means a lot to me. So thank you. [13:42] And if I'd never been born, you'd be doing what you're doing. Well, we'll never know. [13:50] We'll never know. But and, you know, the fact that I get to call you a friend and know you is amazing. It's definitely one of those things where sometimes you feel like your life is a dream. And I think you and I talked about this one time. [14:03] that, [14:05] you know, [14:05] Life does feel like a dream. And I know that there's moments in your life where you look back at your life and say, [14:11] You remember the movie, It's a Wonderful Life? And Jimmy Stewart has this angel named Clarence. [14:19] There are things that have happened to me where I feel I've got Clarence on my shoulder. Mm-hmm. From the very early on in life, I remember I...

[14:29] Thank you. [14:30] I lived with my grandmother in one room a block north of Hollywood Boulevard, and we were poor. [14:41] Our rent was a dollar a day. [14:43] $30 a month. And sometimes we could hardly... [14:47] Manage that. And so I graduated from Hollywood High and I desperately wanted to go to UCLA. [14:57] And my grandmother said, forget it. You know, we can't afford the tuition. There's no way. Guess what? The tuition was UCLA in 1951. [15:09] A yearly tuition? Yeah. Well, for a semester. Okay, for a semester. [15:16] $1,000. [15:18] $43. And we couldn't afford it. Yeah. So we lived in this apartment building right at our room face the lobby. So every morning I would check there was a pigeonhole mailboxes for all the apartments. And I would look out and see if we had a little letter or something in this in our slot. So I go and there's a letter in this slot this one morning. [15:48] My name was typewritten on the envelope. [15:53] And there was a $50 bill. [15:56] Thank you. [15:57] I do not to this day know where that came from. Nobody in the neighborhood that kind of money had that. And,

[16:05] That was my tuition. Wow. So that was Clarence, you know, and I got to go to UCLA. Then I got a catalog that said Theater Arts, and I looked through that, and there was one called Theater Arts English. So I entered the Theater Arts Department, but also at that time if you were a student, [16:25] A freshman, no matter what, if you wanted theater arts film, theater arts theater, theater arts English, you had to take an acting course. Do you remember the first thing you did in your acting class then? Yes. [16:39] Oh, I was terrified. I'd never done anything. I'd never performed or anything. Wow. Oh, my God. And I came in late, actually, and all the other kids were teamed up. And so I was the oddball. [16:55] choose from. [16:57] One from The Country Girl and one from a play called The Mad Woman of Chaillot. And I picked The Mad Woman because it was shorter. And I got up and I... [17:08] And it didn't even occur to me to read the play. All I did was memorize it. And I said, I'm doing a scene from The Mad Woman of Chalit. I didn't know how to pronounce it. And I did it, and she gave me a D minus. [17:26] And she said, the only reason I'm not failing you is because you memorized it. Sounds like a great teacher. Well, she was right. She was right. And then...

[17:36] I got into a one act that one of the students had written where I played a hillbilly woman. [17:42] And of course, we're from Arkansas and Texas and [17:45] All I remember is that there was one scene where I came out and I'm this over-the-hill hillbilly woman. And I just said, I'm back. And everybody cracked up and laughed. Was that your first laugh you remember getting, doing, like performing? Yeah. And from then on, and then some of the other students would come up and some of the teachers said, would you be in another one act? Would you be in another one act? [18:08] All of a sudden I thought... [18:10] I kind of like this. Yeah. When I was talking to Kristen Wiig, who is here doing this, who I know you love. Yeah. She said that she kind of burst into tears when she met you. I hate it when people look at me and cry. [18:27] Why am I scaring them? When they point at you and cry. [18:33] Yeah. But what I was going to say is Kristen talked about how important it was to meet you. [18:40] um, [18:41] You talk about how luck played a big part in many moments in your life, but you're [18:46] As you know, luck only gets you so far. You kind of have to show up. You have to kind of nail it. You know which door to go through. Yes. And you have to kind of deliver. Yeah. And... [18:58] What I love about your work, which continues even to this very moment, this very day, because you are [19:04] working nonstop is that,

[19:07] You are this beautiful combination of [19:10] Luck. [19:12] meets opportunity, meets gratitude, meets flexibility, meets collaboration. I've watched and watched you and your career since I was a young person and how you welcome all of those things at once. You're never taking anything for granted. No, you don't. You can't. But people do. [19:32] then they're wrong. Yeah. Right. But you also are so confident and skilled in what you know you can do. You show up for those lucky moments. And I want to talk about all of that stuff today. But, you know, I think sometimes with I'm lucky to know a lot of nonagenarians, like my, you know, the 90s or the new 80s, babe. I like that. I just want to talk about the present moment for a second, because you are working. [20:02] now today? How is work feeling? It feels the same. I'm 105 years old, but when we were doing Paul Morial and all that, I'm just as excited as I was when I was [20:21] I came out and said, I'm back. [20:24] You know, it's the same thing. And I was just another thing. [20:29] I was thrilled about Palm Royale. It was when Abe Sylvia called me, he was the creator and director and showrunner, all of that, two, three years ago, I guess it was. I said, we're going to do this show. And.

[20:44] We'd love you to be a part of it. [20:47] I said, well, what's it about who? And then he told me who was going to be in it. Yeah. Kristen Wiig, Allison Janney, Laura Dern. I said, well. [20:55] I'm in. Don't even bother sending me a script. [20:59] I want to work with these ladies. I want to lock eyeballs with them and get in the sandbox and play. And it was really, of course, the first few episodes I was in a coma. [21:13] Yeah, I know. You have it in your contract that you need to be able to sleep on set. Exactly. [21:20] Get up at 5 in the morning, go get made up, go right back to bed. [21:29] and I feel grateful for this too, is that you're a living example of, it's just like, [21:36] If one's lucky enough, they keep meeting new people and new friends. Absolutely. Absolutely. I felt that way. I was very lucky to do Better Call Saul. That was just before Palme Royale. Yeah. And I was a big fan of Breaking Bad and Vince Gilligan. And I watched Bob Odenkirk and all. Yeah. And Vince Gilligan said, we'd love you to come on there no matter what. So it was a wonderful, wonderful time for me, too. [22:06] that, [22:07] you've gone back and forth in your life between New York and LA. And I want to talk about both. And I bet that, [22:13] Each block or section of the city holds a memory. What was Hollywood like when you were there? How would you describe it? You didn't even have to lock your doors. And every morning when I would...

[22:23] go out getting ready to go to school, I'd look up and there was a Hollywood sign. And we used to climb the Hollywood sign. Wow. Yeah, the neighborhood kids and I, now you can't get near it. Sure. But we would fly kites or roller skate and they would say, yeah, I'm bored. Let's go climb the sign. So we don't care. And it was kind of rickety then. They'd fixed it up now. Wow. [22:47] And there were splinters and I would climb up and get splinters. It's a wonder we didn't break our neck. And then the O's were my favorite. And I would just hang over the O's and say, hello, Hollywood. Hello. And then we do the Tarzan yell and all of that. Yeah. [23:04] Also, growing up like that, we played. Yeah. We went out and played until it was time to go in for supper. Yeah. Yeah. [23:14] And no one knew where you were. No, really. You know, I'd hear my grandma say, Carol, come on, you know. And we'd come in. And I'd say, I'm going out and play now after school. And then you spoke about your grandmother, who was instrumental in your life, and how you would go to the movies together. Yeah. So... [23:35] Take us to that. What were you watching? Who were you seeing on the screen? Well, we would go to the second run just because they were cheaper than going. If you went to a first run, it was... [23:47] A lot more money, like a quarter, you know. And so the second runs, and there would be double features.

[23:54] So we would go – [23:57] One, two. [23:58] three, four, maybe six movies a week. Wow. And that was in the 40s. And Betty Grable and Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland and Tyrone Power and all of those, which maybe none of the people listening know those people. Anyway, they were my favorites. Yeah. And – [24:20] Linda Darnell was a beautiful woman. She's not as well known today as... You know what? I don't know Linda Darnell. I have to tell you. [24:29] My grandmother and I, you know, we would go and hang over the ropes when there would be a premiere on Hollywood Boulevard and to watch the movie stars come in. Right. So I'm nine years old and Nanny is standing there and the ropes are holding all of us back and coming, walking up. [24:48] My bias was Linda Darnell. I've got to look her up while you talk about her. Oh, do. Do. Okay. And so... [24:54] And my grandmother grabbed her by the... She said, Linda, Linda. [25:02] Give this little girl your autograph. She just loves you. And Linda Darnell was so sweet. And I'm looking at her and she said, okay, dear. And I gave her my book and I was shaking. And she said, what's your name? And I told her and I'm looking at this gorgeous. [25:17] And I realized that [25:19] Her nostrils didn't match.

[25:28] Why? What happened? It was just like a millimeter off. [25:33] And suddenly you realize. And that was the only flaw. [25:36] Suddenly you realize nothing is what it seems. Let me see your nostrils. Let me see your nostrils. Our faces are different when you put it. They're different. Symmetry is not my strong point. I don't think it is right. [25:49] But I remember that so clearly. You remember that so clearly. Oh, my gosh. Who else did you have in that autograph book? Oh, gosh. I had – [26:01] Betty Grable. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Linda is so pretty. I'm looking her up right now. She proves my theory that the more far apart your eyes are. Oh. Her eyes are very far apart. Oh, you're looking at her. Yeah. She proves my theory that if your eyes are far apart, you're very beautiful. And especially if they don't cross. [26:22] And I remember... [26:24] We would go to the Grumman's Chinese, where they have the courtyard with everybody's handprints and footprints and so forth. And I remember putting my handprints into Betty Grable's handprints. And just a few months ago... [26:41] I got my handprints after all these years. And I remember putting mine, and I'm wondering, will somebody someday put their handprints on mine? You know, wouldn't that be kind of wild? Yeah. But I, yeah. So cool. And also... [26:57] I mean, I feel I did have a fairy godmother. Yeah, Clarence. Clarence. Betty Grable was one of my first guests on my show. Wow. Did you tell her the story? Oh, yeah. What was she like? Adorable. Very funny. Yeah. Betty was on the show as a guest.

[27:15] And so was Martha Ray, who was one of the funniest women ever. She was very bawdy and loud. And she and Betty had worked together and they were good friends. So it was, for me, my God, I'd grown up watching Betty Graham, watching Martha Ray. I was all thrilled. So now we're rehearsing. Now, Betty... [27:35] had a thing about Coca-Cola. She had to drink Coca-Cola all the time. So what would happen would she be going, constantly, I mean, really, really loud. [27:53] She just loved Coca-Cola. So we're in the wings, ready, and we're doing the show. And Betty and Martha and I are ready for our cue to go out. [28:05] took one and did again. Martha Ray said, oh, for God's sakes, Betty, why don't you just fart and save your teeth? [28:21] I thought I was going to die. And then we had to go out and do the finale. I was just hysterical. [28:30] Betty, I mean, you talk a lot. [28:35] a lot about people coming through your show, the Carol Burnett show. I mean, when you host a show, I know that from SNL and in some ways from Parks, when you host a show and people come through, you're the host. You're hosting the show, but you're also hosting the guests, and you're watching all the different ways that people work. But I mean, it was a joy. In fact, in 11 years, we didn't have one broadened person.

[29:01] Yeah. That we dealt with at all. Everybody was happy to be on. And another thing that I always loved doing. [29:07] Was giving like if we had Chita Rivera or Juliet Prowse or dancers and singers on the show, we also would try to put them in a sketch. Yeah. So that they because if they went on another show, the other shows, they would just do their bit and that would be it. Or they may be in a finale also. But we would put Gwen Verdon in a sketch. I even did a sketch. [29:32] with Ray Charles. Wow. What was this catch? It was a piano bar. And I was a lady who was a little bit in her cups, very sad about herself because it was her birthday and nobody cared. You know, and I was and so now I'm talking to Ray who is at the piano. And we have this lovely little scene about the fact that I'm so sad and nobody and he then talks is very sweet, encourages me, [30:02] He says, come on over here and sit down. And then we sang together, you know. And he said, I just love it. He said, nobody has ever asked me to do lines before. Wow. So he really, he loved it. Wow. Okay. When you were in your 20s in New York. Yeah. First of all, what was it like being in New York in the, was it late? It was the 50s? 50s. Did Mad Men get it right? Like, was that, was it? I lived at the rehearsal club.

[30:32] Talk about the rehearsal club. I got a chance to go to New York. A benefactor lent me the money to go. I had never been any further east than Texas or California. And I remember my grandmother saying, you can't go to New York. She said, your blood's too thin. You'll be dead in a week. [30:53] So much for that. Good, thank you. Anyway, I said, I'm going to New York. I have this money. [31:02] will. [31:04] And naive. How old were you? 21. 21, yeah. I didn't know where I was going to stay. [31:10] Right. You just showed up and said, we'll figure it out. It's like the movies, you know, now I'm in a Broadway show. So I'm on the airplane. [31:20] And I see an ad for the Algonquin Hotel. I said, well, I think I'll go there. And I had something like $300 some odd dollars left. [31:29] And so it was raining. I had a cardboard suitcase and got up to the Algonquin. And I checked in and he said, that would be $9. And I said, for the week? He said, no, for the night. $9 for what? [31:45] But OK, so I gave the nine dollars and I went up to this room and I'm there and I called Nanny, my grandmother, and she said, come home. I said, I just got here. And she anyway, I hung up and I thought, what am I going to do? I'm in New York. And the next morning I had one phone number that I could call. And it was a girl who had gone to UCLA and was ahead of me.

[32:15] us in case we ever got to New York to give her a call. So that was the one number I had. And I called her. Her name was Eleanor Eby. And I called her. [32:25] The phone rang and says, hello. I said, is Eleanor Eby there? And they said, wait a minute, Ellie. And I'm hearing all this noise going on, people singing and stuff. And she gets on the phone. Hello. I said, Ellie, it's Carol. You're here. Where are you? I said, the Algonquin. She said, get out of it. Are you crazy? She said, come up here. Gave me the address. [32:49] I left, I got bing bong, and it's a brownstone, four stories. And I had no idea, but I rang the doorbell. Some gal opened the door. [33:00] She said, well, I said, I'm here to see Eleanor. And I go in and there's a parlor and a bunch of stairs going up to the various floors. And people are dancing. [33:11] And singing and playing the piano. And all women? All women. [33:15] And it was called the Rehearsal Club. And maybe about 25 women lived there. And Ellie said, maybe we can get you... [33:25] a way to stay here. And she said, I'll introduce you to the house mother, Ms. Carlton. And Ms. Carlton came. She said, well, you're in luck. We have one cot available. And it was $18 a week, room and board. It was sponsored by a lot of rich New York ladies, which made it possible for that to be so inexpensive. And she said, this is a transit

[33:55] and you'll have four roommates. There'll be five of you. [34:00] And she said, there are rules. No men be on the parlor. And they can't stay past 10 o'clock or midnight on weekends. You cannot spend the night you have to be in. Yeah. It was very, very strict. And you have to be pursuing a career in the theater. You are allowed to take a part-time job to help pay for the rent. Wow. [34:30] and so forth and so on. So it was very... It's making me think of the Lucille Ball movie Stage Door. That's what it was written about. Stage Door was about the rehearsal club. That was it. I was just going to... Absolutely. How funny. That was it also. [34:44] It's the first time [34:47] I had a bed. [34:50] I slept on the couch for 21 years. My grandmother slept on the Murphy bed. I have a bed. Carol, you know, it makes me want to ask you, was there ever a job that made you feel secure, financially secure? Only when I got on the Gary Moore show and Once Upon a Mattress. Okay, because Once Upon a Mattress felt like a secure job. [35:12] Like, okay, I've got a gig every week, and I'm going to be okay, and I'm going to be able to take care of my family. And were you taking care of your family then? Oh, yeah. Yeah. [35:21] So Once Upon a Mattress is a Broadway show that you –

[35:26] You opened that show. You were the original Winifred. Right, yeah. Okay, so we've talked about it on this podcast, that particular show, and I know I've shared this with you because I got to be Winifred in my high school production of Once Upon a Mattress. Oh, I love it, yeah. And listen to your cast recording to try to learn the part. And Rachel Dratch, the great Rachel Dratch from SNL, also was in Once Upon a Mattress. She jokes that she was the boring part, the Lady Larkin part. Right, yeah. [35:56] And I spoke to her earlier today about you. Give her my little. I will. And we talked about how influential you were. [36:06] to us. But when you were doing Once Upon a Mattress, [36:12] you were getting like finally getting paid to be an actor. $80 a week. Well, what happened actually again, [36:21] Clarence. I had been auditioning before I got Mattress. When I left UCLA to go to New York, my friend said, what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to go to New York and I'm going to be in a show directed by George Abbott. [36:37] Now, George Abbott was Mr. Broadway. He directed Pajama Game, Damn Yankees. He was the musical director of all time. And I said that. I'm going to be. OK, but that's what I'm talking about. That's not Clarence. That's Carol. Hold on, though. Wait, this is weird. But that's manifesting. You put it out there in the universe. That's right.

[37:07] a show called Babes in Arms that Rogers and Hammerstein and Hart wrote. And they were going to open it in Florida and bring it to Broadway. [37:16] I auditioned and it looked like I was going to get the part of the girl who sings Johnny one note. I was so excited and everything. And then, [37:25] And the director wanted me, but then they said, you know, Carol, we're going to go for someone who's got a name. I went, oh, wow. [37:33] So I hung up the phone, swear to God. [37:36] Thank you. [37:37] I got the phone. Two minutes later, the phone rang and it was... [37:41] Jean Eckhart, who was producing a show called Once Upon a Mattress, and she said, can you come down now to the Phoenix Theater and audition for George Abbott? [37:53] Wow. [37:55] Rejection is God's protection, Carol. I took the subway down. I sang what I had to do. Do you remember what you sang? Do you remember your audition song? I sang Everybody Loves to Take a Bow. It's from a show called Hazel Flag. I got back. The phone was ringing. [38:11] They said, you got the part. [38:13] And had I gotten... [38:16] Babes at Arms, which never left Florida, I wouldn't have had mattress. Isn't it weird how when you look at life and you think if just the slightest thing moved here and the slightest thing moved here. Some of the best things happen when you're disappointed at first. That's right. [38:32] He looked back and said, you know, if that hadn't happened, this would... [38:36] That's right.

[38:44] When you were doing Once Upon a Mattress, we spoke, we mentioned Lucille Ball, but can you tell everyone that story? I know you've told it before, but to me, you were very kind to talk and always talk about Lucy whenever you get a chance to, but you were very kind to talk about her in a documentary that I did. And you told this story, which I think is not only so indicative of how wonderful a [39:08] and supportive person she was. [39:11] but how... [39:13] she saw in you something very, very special that we all eventually came to know. I remember we opened in New York. [39:25] May of 1959. [39:29] And... [39:30] Got great reviews. I was like, wow. I was thrilled. And the second night... [39:36] There was a buzz backstage and everything. And I said, what is it? Lucy's in the audience. I was more frightened. Oh, yeah. She was then I was opening night. Oh, I what year was this? 1959. So I remember I was stupid. I peeked through and I saw this orange hair in the second row. Oh, my God. Anyway, I got through the show. [39:58] And she wanted to come backstage. And it was off-Broadway theater, and it was really funky. You know, I had a couch where the coil was sticking up. Yeah. And it was kind of, anyway, you know, and it was Lucille Ball. Come in, you know. And she headed for the couch, and I said, oh, look. She said, no, I see it. You know, so she sat on the right end of the couch. And, oh, God, 20, 25 minutes.

[40:28] And she called me kid. [40:31] She was 22 years older, and as she was leaving, she said, kid, if you ever need me for anything, I'll be there. [40:39] You give me a call. [40:41] Wow. So actually, about four years later, I was... [40:48] working and doing stuff, and CBS wanted me to do an hour-long special, variety special, if... [40:56] I could get a major guest star. [40:59] So the producer said, you've got to call Lucy. I said, I don't want to bother her. All she can do is say, I'd love to, kid, but I'm busy, you know. So I got up the nerve, and I called her. Hey, kid, you're doing great. What's happening? I went, I'm doing a show, and I know you're busy. And she said, hold on. [41:22] When do you want me? [41:23] And she's such a badass. So she did the show. And we did it together. Yeah. I mean, I think about Lucy a lot when when she she was very ahead of her time. And also we talked about this when we were when we talked about her together. She you know, she was producing and running shows, even though she wasn't getting the credit, just like you were producing your show. She was so ahead of her time. Well, there's a story. [41:52] She, when she did my show. [41:56] We had a lot of fun together, and we were...

[42:00] had a dinner break. So we went across the way to the farmer's market, you know, and she's knocking back a couple of whiskey sours. And she says, you know, kid, [42:11] Because my husband at the time, Joe, was producing our show. Yeah. You know, and I... [42:18] He just did it. And she said, you're very poor. You've got Joe to do it for you. She said, because when I was married to the Cuban, she said, [42:31] Desi did everything. He invented the three-camera system. A lot of people don't know. He said he took care of the scripts. He took care of the costumes. He took care of the lighting. All I had to do was come in and be Silly Lucy on Monday and do the show. [42:46] Then we got a divorce. [42:49] She says, now I know I am. [42:51] have to be like Desi. I got to get up. And she said, I didn't know what, so they had a script reading of the new Lucy show. And she said, and I, [43:02] It was terrible. [43:04] It was terrible. And I thought, Desi wasn't here to fix it. She says, I called lunch. She said, and I went back and I figured I have to be [43:16] strong, I have to be confronted, but still not afraid. So she went back and she said, and I told him in no uncertain terms, the right of [43:27] What they had to do, how to fix it. I was just really tough. And then she took another little drink. She said, and kid...

[43:35] That's when they put the S on the end of my last name. [43:43] Yeah. And so every birthday, on my birthday, she would send me flowers. Happy birthday, kid. Yeah. And – [43:52] This one morning I got up, it was my birthday, and she had died that day on my birthday. And I got to flowers that afternoon. [44:01] Happy birthday, kid. Do you believe in ghosts or spirits? I don't not believe in them. Yeah. Do you feel like you've ever been visited by ghosts? [44:13] Lucy? Yeah, by Lucy. Don't you feel like she'd be a funny ghost? Hello. Lucy, if you're here. Lucy, if you're here. Lucy, we'd get our Ouija board out. But yeah, I mean, and Carol, you're like that for so many people. I mean, I feel like you're a mentor to so many women. And you, like you said, you got things handed to you, and you hand it [44:43] felt like it was embedded in the Carol Burnett show? Because, so you were skipping a lot, but obviously you go to New York, you're in Broadway, Gary Moore. And do you feel like, [44:55] I mean... [44:57] Thank you. [44:57] You were physical in a way back then and a way back and way and a way now. I mean, first of all, you look terrific. Well, thank you. You're 92? Yeah.

[45:09] I mean, you're just... Well, thank you. I mean, physically, your body has been so good to you. You have a command of your body and always have. And it's like, and I guess one of the questions that Rachel had that we were talking about is this idea of physical comedy, which was... I love doing it. Yeah, when you would do the show, would you do warm-ups, like physical warm-ups? Like, would you stretch? Like, before the show was about to start... No, I was very athletic as a kid. Mm-hmm. [45:37] I would roller skate. I would do all kinds of climb the sign. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was. [45:44] And I could run like the wind. I was very fast. But you have those legs, Carol. [45:50] Well, they're the last things to go. Babe, you got it. I mean, what I would give for long legs. You have the best legs. Thank you. You probably could have been a long-distance runner. Well, when I was in junior high school, my physical teacher, because I could run, she sent a letter home to my grandmother saying, could Carol stay after school and I could be coaching her? And my grandmother said, no. [46:14] running is bad for the heart, whatever that meant. [46:19] That was definitely back then when everyone was a little scared of everything. Of everything. Yeah, running is bad for the heart. Yeah, like she said when I went to New York. Yeah. You'll be dead in a week. Your blood's too thin. [46:33] Yeah, so physically. And also, Carol, do you feel like you have a thing that happens, because you've done a lot of live stuff, where when there's something that's a little...

[46:41] You know, when something's going a little wrong, there's like a little fun electricity where you get where you get excited. OK, now what am I going to do? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You've always had that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. [46:55] Yeah. We were accused a lot of breaking up. And so on your show, there would be people you guys would laugh. Well, yeah. And but out of 270 so much shows. [47:09] I can't, there was, in fact, I kind of looked at stuff because it was usually Conway who was after Harvey to break him up. [47:18] I don't think we more than... [47:22] 15 times out of 200. But people remember that. Oh, yeah. Because it was so delicious. It was. But then people say, well, they shouldn't have done that. That kind of fun goof around thing. I mean, that just goes to show, I think, what I felt watching even from, you know. It was a family. It was a family. Yeah. Yeah. [47:44] It was 10 years that you made that show together? 11. I decided I wanted to quit after 11. Do you remember the last moment of the last show? Well, yeah, it was when I sat on the bucket as the charwoman, and then I just talked about how we were going to not come back. Yeah, I cried. It was bittersweet, but it was time. Yeah. And the last thing I'll say about, [48:11] how important that show was to me is you and I know you've spoken about how it was a section that at first you thought I'm not sure why I'm doing this but do you watch your old stuff? Do you watch clips of yourself? I'm not like Norma Desmond. You don't? You're not in your bedroom all day watching old clips of yourself? We have spaces then. But you must every once in a while stumble across something that comes

[48:41] Well, actually, when I wrote my last book was about doing the show. So I had to watch a lot to, you know, I went fast through some of them. And some of the sketches, oh, God, they were terrible. And some were wonderful, you know, but I hadn't remembered a lot. Yeah, yeah. And do you watch comedy now? I ask my guests. Not really. Yeah. Do you watch anything now that you're liking? I watch TCM. [49:11] Thank you. [49:12] I go and visit all the people that I loved when I was growing up. [49:18] Comedically, who did you love growing up? Oh, growing up comedically. Who would you visit right now if you could on TCM? Carol Lombard. [49:29] That's who my mother named me after, actually. She was a beautiful actress. [49:34] comedic actress. [49:36] And could really, you know, with a turn of a twist, this, and that's the movies, you know. [49:44] comedically, um, [49:47] I kind of fashioned my show not only after Gary, but after Sid Caesar. And Sonny and Cher were in the same studio as you, right? They were next door. Do you and Cher hang out? No. [50:01] Did you guys ever hang out? Not really. No, but we know each other we're friends. Yeah, did you watch their show? Oh, yeah. And many times our studios were joined by the ladies' room and men's room.

[50:15] So if there was a break or I had to go through the ladies room and watch them rehearse something. And sometimes like she and Sonny and even separately, sometimes just walk on while I was doing questions and answers. Get around. [50:30] You know, it's great fun. Oh, that's so funny. She's lovely. She is lovely. I mean, I don't know her. We just don't run around in the same circle. She just seems cool. She's cool. Cher, if you're listening, we love you. She should come on this show. You heard it here first, Cher. Yeah. Carol says, I'd love to have her on. What's your sign, Carol? What's your sign? A Taurus. Of course. [50:55] Earth sign. [50:56] What does that mean? I'm lying on a bull. You're a bull. But you're an earth sign. I'm a Virgo. Tina's a Taurus. You know, somebody's got to get this stuff done. Somebody's got to get stuff done. Torrens. And again, I know nothing about astrology. Yeah. [51:10] Well, you know who else is Taurus? Is... [51:14] Shirley MacLaine and Barbara Streisand, they have the same birthday. And you heard it here. Carol thinks you guys should come on this podcast too. I think so. [51:25] One of the most special moments of doing your wonderful special that you and Brian produced for your birthday a couple years ago. Number one, it was like the first time I had been out since COVID. I was like, yay. [51:44] You and Julie Andrews were together and...

[51:47] You held hands during a lot of that and sat next to each other. My chum. Yeah. Tell us when you first met Julie and how important a friend she is to you. I was doing mattresses. [52:01] And she was in Camelot. So she was a queen and I was a princess. And some friends, mutual friends, said you two ought to meet. Because there's a similarity there. And you two. [52:16] Later on, Julie and I even talked about, oh, come on. It's like saying a blind date. You ought to be to see him. Anyway, she had a Sunday night off from Camelot, and we worked on Sunday night. So she came with her friend, and I had my friend there, the two gentlemen, just friends. And she watched Mattress, and we went out to a Chinese restaurant afterwards and, [52:41] And we never stopped talking to each other. The poor guys who were with us just sat there and listened. It was as if we were joined at the hip from the beginning. And always. And she... [52:56] She taught me some dirty words. [53:01] Because you're not a big swearer. You don't love to swear. [53:06] Occasionally. [53:08] Occasionally. If I stub my toe, you know what comes out. And what kind of friend is Julie? [53:14] And my chum, we love each other. We are like, we're sisters. She, unfortunately, not unfortunate, but for me, she lives on the East Coast. Yeah. So you kind of. Yeah. And it was so sweet of her to come to the 90th to be with me. Where were you when The Sound of Music came out? Did you go to the premiere? Yeah.

[53:36] Do you remember the movie? Yeah. No, I didn't go to the premiere, but I remember she used to send me dirty limericks when she was filming. [53:46] She did. I wish I could remember it or even tell it. I think about she did a whole parody on these are a few of my favorite things. [53:57] I mean, brilliant. So good. So good. [54:06] Um, [54:06] You've worked with amazing people. You have had an amazing life where you've gotten to play around with people who are kind of at the beginning of their careers, at the end of their careers. Was there anyone that you met as a young actor? I love to ask people this. You met them, and it was maybe their first job, and you saw something, and you said, oh, they're going to be very successful and famous. Yeah. [54:30] Vicki Lawrence. [54:32] She wrote me a fan letter. [54:34] and we were going to do the show. And we knew we were going to do something with Harvey and me, where I'd be raising my kid sister, and we'd be a married couple. And so... [54:45] I'm reading my fan mail this one night, and this was in December. [54:50] of 66 and we were going to go on in the fall of 67. And I'm opening up this letter and it's from this [54:57] 17-year-old girl, Vicki Lawrence, who's very nice letter saying people say that I remind them of you, young you, and then she enclosed a newspaper article that had her picture in it. She looked.

[55:12] So much like me when I was 17. I thought, oh, that's interesting. And then in the article, they said she was going to be in a contest called Miss Fireball of Inglewood with eight other girls. And so the local paper was doing a bit on each one of those girls. This was her article. And I look at it and then. [55:31] I look at the date. [55:33] The contest is [55:35] is tonight. The letter had been sent three weeks ago, and it got to me from CBS. [55:42] It's tonight. So my husband's coming downstairs, and I said... [55:47] Don't get too comfortable. We're going to the Miss Fire Bowl contest tonight. He said, what? And I showed him the article. I said, what? [55:55] But should you... [55:57] Yeah, okay, but shouldn't you try to tell her? Don't make her nervous. I said, you're right. So her father's name was listed in the article, Howard Lawrence. So I called. [56:10] the operator, and I said, got the phone number. And so it rings. [56:15] And this lady answers, hello. I said, hi. I said, is Vicki Lawrence there? And she said, this is her mother. Who's calling? And I said, it's Carol Burnett. Vicki! [56:33] Vicki comes up. I hear footsteps. Vicki comes up, too. Yeah, hi, Marsha. I said, it's not Marsha. Wow. It's Carol. I got to, would you be okay if we come to the car?

[56:45] Okay. So we went. Wow. She did the guitar. She played the kazoo. She did a couple of jokes as she sang, and she won the contest. And she was like you, in peeking out and seeing, just like you saw Lucy, she's peeking out seeing Carol. And so I was in touch with her. I said, we're going to be doing a little, well, I'll be in touch with you. We're going to be doing a little very famous show that's going to change comedy. [57:14] read, and there was another girl who'd had a lot of experience. Vicki was wrong, but saw something. You saw something. And today... [57:25] No network would let us do that. [57:27] hire an 18 year old girl with no experience. That's right. They wouldn't allow. I mean, Carol, we could talk forever about the biz because the biz has changed so much. Yeah. [57:36] I know. I, you know, [57:39] You can't be happy being 92, but I'm glad I'm 92 because none of this would have happened before. [57:45] today for me. It might have been, something might have happened, but it wouldn't be [57:51] There's no way we could do what we did before. 28-piece orchestra. [57:57] 65 to 70 costumes a week. [58:00] Two guest stars, a major rep company. Yeah. [58:05] And also... [58:08] CBS left us alone. Right. I remember you telling me that. They really didn't give you any notes. That was one note in 11 years.

[58:18] Sorry, I'm laughing. I was doing a sketch where I was a nudist. And I'm behind a fence that says, keep out. And so I'm hanging over the fence, you know, bare-shouldered. And then my legs are bare with high-top tennis shoes. And Harvey's voiceover. [58:38] He's interviewing me and it's a bunch of jokes about a nudist colony. I mean, it's no big deal. So one of the lines was... [58:46] So what do you nudists do for entertainment? You know, I said, well, we have dances every Saturday night. And he said, oh, and how do you nudists dance? And I said, very carefully. Well, she says, true, the network, that was too blue. You have to change that line. [59:09] Sometimes the change is even dirtier. Hello. [59:12] So what do you do? Well, we have dances every Saturday night. Well, how do you dance? Cheek to cheek. [59:27] Incredible. So much better. And they were like, that's it. That's better. [59:33] That's good. [59:35] Also, I don't have really any questions other than Annie. [59:43] That's all, Carol. Annie was so important. Annie remains so important, but was very important to Gen X women. I've talked about it with Rachel Dratch and a bunch of people in this, how big Annie was as a musical. It was all parts for it. We were that age. And then when the movie came out, we thought, okay, here comes the movie. And when you were Miss Hannigan...

[1:00:08] It was like I saw that character for the first time. I really understood her. Well, I went to John Huston at the beginning, and I said, I think she should drink coffee. [1:00:21] It wasn't in the original that she should have a little bit because it would only make sense that this woman, you know. Yes. And so he, that's a good idea there. That's the way to. Now. [1:00:35] This is my favorite story about Annie. Tim Curry, Bernadette and I, you know, the villains. Yeah. Easy Street was going to be this big number. So being a Hollywood movie, they decided... [1:00:49] To change it from the original, where it's just the three in the orphanage, to this big, huge thing where they had this street open up. They had 400 dancers, singers, this people hanging out. I even had a monkey grinder with a monkey. And Tim and Bernard, it takes away from... [1:01:11] The number, they're just big Hollywood production, huge. And, you know, took a week to film. And at that time, a million dollars or so, you know. [1:01:20] Okay, all right. So we wrapped. I flew back. I was at the time living in Honolulu. [1:01:27] Bernadette flew back to New York, Tim London. [1:01:30] And I had always wanted more of a chance. [1:01:35] I had a weak chin. Now, there was an orthopedic surgeon, orthopedic, no, an oral surgeon in Honolulu, who said, oh, well, you know, I can just give it a little more. I said, I don't want to be Kirk Douglas. Right. I don't, I want, oh, when it rains, I'd kind of like to feel it, you know. And I said, just like two or three millimeters. That's all. Just so I have a little more of a chin. Yeah. Okay. So no big deal. He fixed it and I had a little more of a chin.

[1:02:05] I get a call, and it's Ray Stark, who's a producer. He said, we're going to reshoot the Easy Street number with just the three of you. I said, thank goodness. That's great. So now Tim and Bernadette and I are in her office. Hannah goes on. And Mr. Houston says, well, what I think we'll do is we'll do it from when Carol – [1:02:29] Ran into the closet to find Annie's locket. We'll pick it up when she comes out with the locket. [1:02:37] Thank you. [1:02:38] Thank you. [1:02:39] I went to Mr. Houston. Call me John, dear. John. [1:02:44] Two months ago when I ran into the closet, I didn't have a chin. [1:02:51] And now I'm coming out of the closet. [1:02:55] With a chin. [1:02:57] And he thought for a minute, [1:02:59] Thanks. [1:03:01] So... [1:03:02] Well, dear, just come out looking determined. [1:03:06] Great direction. [1:03:08] That's my favorite 90s story. I mean, I guess I want to end, Carol, by asking you, what is the best part about being in your 90s? [1:03:17] That you're not 105. [1:03:22] Yeah, that's yet to come. You're a kid. Yeah. Do you feel like a kid? A few years ago, a bunch of us were sitting around a table and said, how do you really feel inside? I said, 11. 11. [1:03:34] And I remember maybe that's because that's when I would climb the sign, when I would roller skate, when I would put my handprints with,

[1:03:43] Betty Grable, I don't know, but something about... [1:03:47] Being 11. [1:03:51] Go figure. Well, I loved you when I was 11. So when I'm with you, I feel 11, too. So it's really nice. And, you know, I knew I was going to cry. I knew I was going to cry. And Jana said when I cried that she would start saying, cry, cry, cry. [1:04:15] So when I knew I would cry, but Carol, that is amazing. [1:04:18] That sense of play. That sense of play. Especially young girls. They're kind of really magical at 11. They haven't quite become self-conscious. Maybe that's it. They're not too smart-alecky yet. That's why we're not talking about teenagers' good luck. Yeah, 11 is still very sweet. When they're teenagers, you are so stupid. You have no idea what life is about because you're too old. Totally. But there's that tender moment. [1:04:48] Become self-conscious when you can still kind of like do your thing and not really worry about. I remember when my daughter, Carrie, who we lost a few years ago when she was five years old, we caught her in a fib. [1:05:01] And I said, that's not good. So you have your dinner and you go up to bed and, you know, you can't stay up. He's just going. And then I went in. [1:05:10] Afterwards said I [1:05:11] She was upset. And I sat on her bed, and I'm looking at her, and I said, Sweetheart, you know we love you very much, but if you tell a little fib, then later on it might become bigger, and people don't want to be a liar. And she is looking at me like,

[1:05:28] You know, and I'm thinking... [1:05:32] I'm going to get a medal as a mother of the year. I am so, I could hear violins. I was so perfect. And she's looking at me. [1:05:44] And finally I stopped. [1:05:47] Are you okay, sweetheart? You want to say anything? She said, [1:05:50] What, darling? She said, [1:05:54] How many teeth do you have? [1:06:02] Okay. [1:06:07] Perfect, Carol. Perfect. Yes. May we all get back to that innocent time. Thank you so much for doing this. It means so much that you're here. I love you, Carol. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much for coming. [1:06:24] Thank you. [1:06:26] Well, thank you so much, Carol Burnett. I cried. And look, I don't want to I don't want this to become a thing. OK, I don't love crying. And I'm I'm you know, but if anyone's going to get me there, it's Carol Burnett. I'm now technically using the good hang tissues that I have mocked other people for using. And now, well, it got me. So karma is a bitch. [1:06:56] a legend and you mean so much to me. Thank you for doing the show. And it just also makes me think about all the women that we talked about in this interview, Lucille Ball, Betty Grable,

[1:07:06] Linda Darnell, Phyllis Diller, Elaine May, you know, all these different actresses. Do yourself a favor and check them out. Type them in your phone or... [1:07:22] Ask your computer. [1:07:24] ask your computer to bring up a picture of them, um, or, uh, whisper into your robot's ear that you want to see some of their highlights because, uh, it just, it's just a reminder of all the good performances. And also watch that great film stage door, which is a great film about what Carol was talking about, about a women living in a house, trying to be actresses. Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm crying. I've cried. It's all it's over. I've, [1:07:54] listening and we'll see you soon. Bye!