MURDERED: Chandra Levy

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Oh, don't mind me. I was just taking a sip from my crime junkie water bottle, which shameless plug you guys. If you missed all of our merch, there's still water bottles, window clings, mugs on the website. And for anyone who isn't on Facebook and not following us and not being our best friend, you missed the fact that we told everyone we've got some random extra merch in there. [00:55] Anything that was left over, we put on the site. So there still are some like t-shirts, some tank tops. Get in there while you still can. And make sure to actually go follow us because next time we have a merch run, it always goes to our Patreon people first, patreon.com slash crimejunkie, and then to everybody on social, and then we announce it on the air. So if you're wanting to get your hands on some merch, get us there. Don't forget to go tell your friends about the show if you guys are enjoying it. And with that, guys, like I'm Ashley. And I'm Britt. And let's tell you a story.

[01:54] So [01:55] Anyone who gets our newsletter and reads our recommendations knows that I love me a good political scandal. And the case I'm covering today was one of, if not the biggest scandal to hit D.C. that involved murder and affairs. And of course, I'm talking about the case of Chandra Levy. [02:18] I remember this being really big when it happened and following it for a while, but I just kind of stopped and I'm not really sure why. I don't even remember if there was any resolution. I remember the exact same thing. Like I can see Chandra's pictures all over the tabloids and I remember everybody talking about it. And then it seemed like overnight it was gone. And the reason that is, is because 9-11 actually ended up overshadowing her case. [02:48] And after that, it didn't quite pick up steam like it did before. So there is a conclusion. Well, it may be a conclusion. It depends on if you agree with the findings or not. But let me give you the rundown and then you can decide. In May of 2001, Chandra Levy was a 24-year-old graduate student who was from Modesto, California. And at the time of this story, she was living in D.C. because she was finishing up an internship at the Federal Bureau of Prisons. [03:18] internship was coming to an end so she had actually let her landlord know that she would be moving out either the 5th or 6th of may again we're talking about 2001 and she had gone and canceled her gym membership on april 30th she's slowly starting to pack up her things and get ready for this move

[03:37] Well, the fifth comes [03:39] And it goes. And Chandra's parents are really surprised that they haven't heard from her. They know she's supposed to be coming home either that day or the next day. But they haven't heard anything specific. [03:50] they start to call her. [03:52] and call her? [03:53] and call her and call her landlord, but there's no response. No one has seen her. And when they can't get a hold of her on the 5th, they call the DC police and report her missing. The police actually go to her apartment on the 6th to do a welfare check and they get her landlord to let them in. And what they see is a really normal scene to the officers, but very interesting [04:18] eerie in hindsight the apartment looked as if she had just walked away moments ago there were dirty dishes in her sink there were suitcases that were half packed like she was in the middle of something and then just left her apartment and never returned again [04:34] Her parents are naturally freaking out at this point and they know something isn't right. So while the police have this missing persons report, the family do anything they can to try and track down Chandra. And they start with her cell phone. She was still on their plan so they pull the records and see a number that she had called many, many times. So not skipping a beat, her dad calls this number. And the call goes to an answering machine. [05:04] plays, they learn that this is the office of Congressman Gary Condit. Now this isn't even just any congressman out in Washington. This is their congressman for where they live out in California. So they immediately recognize the name. And her parents are like, what on earth is she calling a congressman so much for? Her internship really didn't have anything to do with Congress, so it's not like it was work-related. Well then her dad gets an idea. Forget leaving a message.

[05:34] home is in the same town that they live in. So he just pulls out the phone book and sure enough, the guy is listed. So he calls his home phone and gets him on the line. [05:47] On the phone, the family's wasting no time with pleasantries. Immediately, they're like, okay, listen, our daughter is missing. She called you like a zillion times when she lived in D.C. Why was she calling you and where is she? And Gary basically says, listen, I don't know your daughter. I met her a couple of times and I was kind of mentoring her in D.C. He said, she's very lovely, but I have no information about where she is. And they don't love this answer. [06:17] I guess Chandra had a thing for older men and she had even had an affair with an older married man in the past. So I don't know if Gary's nonchalantness was giving them bad vibes or if they just knew it was very likely that maybe they were more involved based on Chandra's history. [06:34] Or even Chandra wanted to be more involved. Exactly. Either way, they decide to call the police and tell them about what they found in the phone records. [06:43] Police start looking into Gary and they find that his DC condo is just minutes from Chandra's rental. So they go to visit him and he kind of gives police the same spiel. Like, yes, I met her. I met her once. Her and a friend came to my office and I gave them a tour around the Capitol. I became kind of a mentor to her. And he said Chandra would often come to him for career advice and he would try to guide her. But other than that, they didn't have any involvement together.

[07:13] and he had no idea where she was. [07:16] Police decided at this point to get a warrant to search Chandra's place and maybe there were some clues around there that would help guide them to where she was. Now I think at this time, this was like over a week from May 1st, which is the last day that she was seen and the day they think she went missing. When they search her place, they find that she's left everything behind. Her wallet... [07:38] her ID, [07:39] The only thing she seems to have taken with her were her keys. [07:43] Now she does have a personal computer which they try and search. But as they're looking through it, the computer crashes. What? Yeah, I mean like what are the odds? So they have to take it to their experts and hope that they can get it back up and running. Now another roadblock they run into and it's really kind of their fault is the surveillance. Chandra's rental, like where she was renting her place, had surveillance footage. And they kept it for a week. [08:13] check on the 6th they didn't ask for any kind of surveillance video and now the time that they're going back to do this full search it's been over a week so any surveillance video has been totally wiped so they have no idea like if Chandra left her place alone if she left like distressed how did she look what was she wearing they have none of this information. [08:35] So at this point, they've struck out twice. So they keep taking things from Chandra's place, different items that could be used as evidence. And they also notice that she has some messages on her machine. So they play them. And most are from her family, but there are two from a man. And it's a man whose voice they recognize. It's about 6.30. I haven't heard from you. Maybe you're out of the country or something. Anyway, give me a call to pick up this message. Give me, um...

[09:02] So police know for sure it's clear that these messages are from Gary Condit. Now, while none of these messages were necessarily scandalous in nature, it seems odd that a congressman who's just mentoring, like can you feel the air quotes, who's just mentoring this girl is calling her apartment not once but twice asking when she's going to be around because his schedule is clear. [09:30] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [09:49] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [09:56] wherever you get your podcasts. [10:00] While police are doing their thing, Chandra's parents are in the media non-stop doing TV, radio, papers, anything they can do to get Chandra's name out there. And in so many of these interviews, Chandra's mom is begging Gary to talk to police and to cooperate. You see, he is denying being close with her, but the family knows that there was an affair. And it's more than just like, oh, Chandra had a history of liking men like this. [10:30] and the aunt had told the family that Chandra had confirmed she was having an affair with Gary Condit. She had told her about it. He had given her gifts. Chandra said that she was totally madly in love with him. She wanted to have children with him. She wanted him to leave his wife and be with him like crazy in love.

[10:49] And she had also told her aunt that Gary had insisted on complete secrecy of their relationship. And more than just like, hey, don't tell anyone, he would make her jump through some crazy hoops to be with him. Like they couldn't go out anywhere around D.C. Like if they were going to go out together, they would go out somewhere far away where no one would recognize them. Anytime they would go out, he wouldn't let her bring her ID with her. [11:16] which... [11:16] is super freaking weird to me. So I don't know if it's just like if they were to get carded, like he doesn't want anyone connecting their names together, but he always told her to leave her ID at home. And he even went so far as to say if she was going to visit him at his condo, if she was in the elevator and someone else got on the elevator, she was supposed to get off on another floor that wasn't his so that nobody could connect her getting off on his floor. Totally normal. Yeah, I mean he was going above and beyond to make sure that nobody ever found out [11:46] they were going to be together. And he did this because he had a lot to lose. He was a rising political star, and there were even whispers at the time of him eventually running for the presidency. It coming out that he was having an affair with an intern could ruin his career, especially when that intern is now missing. And it doesn't help that he kind of dug his own grave because he was one of the most vocal people in the Democratic Party when the affair between Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky broke. [12:16] He went out and publicly said that basically Bill needs to come forward with like every scandalous detail because there's no way for us to trust him unless he like airs everything out and admit that what he's done is wrong. Right, right. Nice double standard there. Right, like that's what I'm saying. And the craziest part to me is to this day, Gary Condon will not say that he had an affair with Chandra. Like this guy is a hypocrite like to the nth degree.

[12:46] that they had an affair. They had her aunt confirming it, [12:50] They had friends of Chandra's confirming it. And they had confirmed it by finding sperm in a pair of underwear at Chandra's house that matched his DNA. And of course, the tabloids get a hold of these kinds of stories. And everyone is going crazy over this in 2001. So, [13:10] I'm not the only person who can't look away from a scandalous affair in government. People were eating it up and the whole country was watching as police would sweep the city looking for Chandra. They're searching her condo. They're searching in dumpsters. They're searching in alleyways, vacant properties. At this point, it's been two weeks now with no sign of her. So police are realizing that they're likely looking to recover a body and not a living girl. [13:37] With no sign of her in their searches, they start trying to talk to Chandra's inner circle. Profilers in this case really thought that this would end up being the work of someone who knew her. Because stranger attacks like this were just so unlikely. And there was one guy they looked at who was friends with Chandra. And it seemed like he wanted to be more... [13:59] but he was very much like friend zoned. And they ended up ruling him out as a suspect, but he was one of the people that corroborated the story about Chandra's affair with Gary Condit. Now, on June 23rd, Gary finally agrees to meet with investigators to do an official interview. The day she went missing, he had pretty good alibis for most of the day. His wife was actually in town. He spent the morning with Dick Cheney in some like stuffy meeting.

[14:29] bunch of people could vouch for him and then he was with his wife by July 10th they actually get a warrant to search Gary's DC condo they're there for hours removing pieces of carpet removing like chunks of his wall literally looking for any sign of something sinister happening [14:47] "but when they process everything [14:50] It all comes back clean. [14:52] however a couple of days after the search a guy comes forward with an interesting story he says on the night of July 10th the same night that they go to search Gary's place just a couple of hours before they got there he saw Gary down by the dumpster and of course Gary Condit's been in the news all over the place so you see this guy by a dumpster you're taking notice and he says [15:22] police go back and realize they haven't collected trash yet so they're like digging through this dumpster and they finally retrieve what it was that Gary was hiding down there. [15:34] When they pull out what Gary had put in there, it was just an empty watch container. But they know it has to mean something. So they're able to track down where this watch was sold. And when they find out who it was sold to, it leads them to a new clue. It was sold to a woman named Jolene. She tells this crazy story that she had actually worked in Gary's office and they had a very long-term affair. And she had given him this watch as a gift.

[16:04] But eventually, Condit just placed crazy amounts of pressure on her to keep everything so secretive that she ended up breaking off the relationship. And she said during their time together, he was very manipulative and very controlling. Now, this watch that another woman gave him doesn't by any means prove that he had anything to do with Chandra's disappearance. [16:34] seven years ago from a mistress, what else could he have hidden that actually could have linked him to Chandra? [16:41] And this is what police are thinking. It's just super, super fishy. Because even a watch box is something that they probably wouldn't have looked too hard at if he wasn't shoving it down into the dumpster. Right, yeah. After this, another woman comes forward to say that she too had an affair with Gary. And her affair was actually going on the same time as his affair with Chandra. She said that after Chandra went missing, he actually broke off the affair [17:11] saying that they never had any kind of relationship before anyone was even like snooping around. Okay. Yeah, again, just like super fishy and unnecessary. So to add to the growing case against Gary, another friend of Chandra's comes forward and says that Chandra was growing anxious about the relationship. She wanted to get married. She wanted to have a baby. And before the weekend that she went missing,

[17:41] in town that weekend and Chandra's aunt said that she had talked to Chandra just a few days before she went missing and Chandra said that she had some really big news but she wanted to wait until she saw her aunt in person no I'm gonna hearken back to crime junkie rule number two if you have something big or a secret that you want to tell somebody and you want to wait just tell somebody [18:11] but she didn't tell so we still to this day have no idea what that news was did Gary promise her that he was going to say something to his wife and he was going to leave her wife and they were going to be together there were a lot of rumors in the tabloids and just people speculating that Chandra was pregnant but there's never been anything to prove that [18:32] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [18:51] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. [18:57] Listen to the deck now. [18:58] wherever you get your podcasts. [19:02] so meanwhile back in the investigation forensic techs have gotten her laptop up and running again and they find that she was on it the last day that they think she was home that may 1st she logged on at 10 27 and visited several sites and she was on there for a couple of hours i think and what she had visited over and over was condit's home page but then one of the last sites she was on was a website for some running trails around rock creek park so

[19:31] No one really knows why she was looking at this. There's a couple of theories, and one of them is that maybe she was going to meet someone there. [19:40] A lot of people said that she didn't like to jog alone, especially in areas where she could be vulnerable. She was very aware of her surroundings. [19:47] But if you remember, she had also just canceled her gym membership because she's getting ready to move home. So maybe it was out of the ordinary for her, but everything was kind of out of the ordinary because she was just about to shake up her life and move. [20:02] She either went there to meet somebody or she truly just did go there for a jog. So police do a search of Rock Creek Park to find her, but they don't find anything at all. I'm sorry. Like I said, I didn't follow this case super, super, super closely for a very long time, but Rock Creek Park sounds really familiar. Isn't that where they found her body? Yeah, that is where they found her body. [20:23] So, but when? Did they just miss it the first time? So, we don't find this out for many, many years. But basically what had happened is... [20:34] They only, whether they misunderstood their instructions or the instructions were never given, we don't really know. But they searched 100 feet off of all of the roadways surrounding Rock Creek Park. But what they should have done and what people said the intention was is for them to search 100 feet off of all of the trails, which are two totally different things. Yeah, very different things. Yeah, and her body was eventually found within 100 feet of a trail.

[21:04] If they would have done this right then, they would have found her body right then. But instead, they do this search off of the roadways and come up with nothing. And no one realizes this mistake for many, many years. And just like that, in a blink of an eye, no one is talking about Chandra Levy. No one is talking about Gary Condit anymore because it's September 11, 2001. The media doesn't care about one girl anymore because they're dealing with 9-11. They're dealing with terrorist attacks. [21:34] With no media, all of the leads dry up and the D.C. police refocus their efforts on stopping attacks and the case goes cold so quickly. [21:45] And no one really talks about it again until May of 2002 when 911 gets a call from a man who's walking with his dog in Rock Creek Park when he finds a skull off of one of the paths. [21:59] When the crime scene technicians arrive, there are bones scattered everywhere. And there are various personal items with the body like sunglasses and clothing. But the clothing is actually turned inside out. And these running pants or running tights that she had were actually knotted on both legs. So they can tell right away that there's no way that this was some kind of accident. Yeah, you don't really fall, hit your head... [22:26] then take off all your clothes and knot them together. Right. Now, the medical examiner already had her dental records for comparison, so they were able to confirm what they suspected. They had, in fact, found Chandra Levy. And, like I had said before, she was less than 100 feet off of the path. So if they had done the search correctly the first time, they would have found her 10 months ago. 10 months ago, there could have been more physical remains,

[22:56] tissue that would show cause of death. Because there were just bones, the medical examiner wasn't even able to determine how exactly she died, but they do rule it a homicide. Now about this same time, Gary is up for re-election and the press has basically chewed him up, spit him out, everyone's over him, nobody likes him, and everyone thinks he's a liar and a hypocrite, but he just won't [23:26] that they're going to do an interview to clear his name once and for all and repair his mistake. And this was a huge mistake because Gary does an interview with Connie Chung, who at the time was on ABC. And it was watched by 24 million people. And 24 million people collectively hated him even more. Can you describe your relationship? What exactly was your relationship with Chandra Levy? [23:56] last October. [23:59] And we became very close. [24:01] I met her in Washington, D.C. [24:03] very close, meaning [24:05] We had a close relationship. I liked her very much. [24:09] May I ask you, was it a sexual relationship? [24:12] Well, Connie, I've been married for 34 years, and I've not been a— [24:15] perfect man and I've made my share of mistakes, but out of respect, I [24:21] for my family and out of a [24:23] specific request from the Levy family, I think it's best that I not get into those details about Chandra Levy.

[24:30] He goes in circles the whole time and literally repeats that last line about not talking due to respect out of his family and due to a request from the Levy family over and over. Later, Connie Chung said it was like he was a robot who would just press a button on his forehead and those words would just come out over and over. Like he was going in circles. They weren't getting anywhere. He wouldn't admit to a relationship with her. [24:55] It was bizarre. And at the end of the day, this was a PR disaster because he ended up losing the election by 20% and his political career was over. [25:06] To try and help with the investigation, the investigators bring in a geographical profiler, which I didn't even know was a thing. And they have this person look at the area to help them understand what about this scene contributed to the crime happening there. And what this person did is the first thing they looked at is, okay, how common are attacks in this area? Like, [25:31] In Rock Creek Park, apparently, [25:34] It was like super, super rare, which almost leads more towards it was somebody that she knew. However, there were two attacks on female joggers in a short time following Chandra's disappearance. And so they dive into the details of these two attacks. The first one was just a couple of weeks after Chandra went missing. A woman named Haley went for an early evening run. And when she gets to the park, she says that she sees this Hispanic man in the parking lot.

[26:04] him made her really uneasy. And I even heard in one place that she actually picked up a stick and was like running with his stick because she was so fearful of him. Running with a stick? I feel like that isn't [26:16] helpful like run to where people are run home confront the guy maybe i don't even know don't even go running at all like you saw him in the parking lot get back in your car girl like you have these feelings for a reason [26:28] Trust your instincts. Exactly. Right. Well, it gets even worse. She trusts her instincts even less. As she's running, she keeps looking back over her shoulder. And she sees him running behind her. And so what she does is... [26:43] This is like you talking yourself out of this. She keeps like speeding up and slowing down, trying to like confirm in her mind, like, is he keeping pace with me? Is he actually following me? Why would you question it? If you think someone might be following you, just act like they're following you and get the heck out of Dodge. [26:58] exactly like be weird be rude stay alive girl but [27:02] She should have just gotten away because eventually this guy grabs her from behind and ends up throwing her down to the ground. What he didn't know is she had been taking self-defense classes and she's able to get him off of her and get away. She runs to police and ends up reporting the attack. [27:20] Soon after, another woman is attacked in Rock Creek Park. And this time, it's even bolder, I think. She's actually out running with her fiancé. So they're running together. And I guess it was super usual that he would run a little bit faster. So he pulls ahead and runs off.

[27:36] running a little bit farther and a little bit farther until finally she can't see him. But they're on the same trail when all of a sudden she hears someone running behind her. And it's not super weird, but she, you know, does the over the shoulder. And it's this young Hispanic man and he's gaining on her. And she tries to outrun him. She does feel like something's up. So she tries to book it, but he gets her from behind as well. And he takes her down and they fall into this ravine. And he has a knife this time. [28:06] him off of her and he's not trying to take anything she's like he is just attacking me trying to kill me but she breaks his grip [28:15] runs back, finds somebody on the trail, and they call police. And police are very aware of the attack that had just recently happened. So they're really quick to respond and they search the area. And when they do, they find this young Hispanic man hiding in the bushes. And this guy's name is Ingmar Guandique. He is in D.C. from El Salvador. And it seems he'd come to get work to send money back to his impoverished family. [28:45] It was an alcohol addiction. So both victims identified him as their attacker, and he confesses and is sentenced to 10 years in prison. [28:54] But! [28:55] He says he wasn't trying to rape them. He says that he was just looking for money to feed his drug addiction. Did he try to take anything from the women? It sounds like it was just a blatant attack. Right. And that's like what police kind of point to over and over. The one girl had like a big engagement ring. They both had Walkmans. And both women said when they were attacked, like he didn't ask for anything. He wasn't going after their belongings. They said that they felt like he was trying to rape them. He was trying to kill them. They both felt just physically threatened.

[29:25] So because of this geographical profiler, they now have this really good suspect. And when they look into him for Chandra's case, he gets even more suspicious looking. He has a history of violence with his girlfriend. It turns out that he missed work on May 1st, the day that she went missing. And that same day, his landlord said he came home with like scratches and bruises all over his face. [29:50] So they interview him about Chandra, and he says that he has nothing to do with her murder. [29:55] They give him a polygraph, [29:57] And the results are surprising. He actually ends up passing. Now, they had to use a translator for this polygraph. So when he passes, they say that, you know, we can't trust the results. They're skewed because we had to use a translator. And also, you can't trust a polygraph. [30:13] Well, yes, but also if like you are, if you knew that a translator would skew the results, like why even do it in the first place? You know what I mean? Because I bet if he would have failed, I don't think anyone's going to be like, oh, he failed, but we can't trust that because we use a translator. I think they were looking for something very specific. Right. Now they don't have any evidence to link him to Chandra. [30:43] 2008 when the Washington Post does an article like a reinvestigation about how the case was so poorly handled and this is when everyone in the public learns about the mix-up with the

[30:57] search like [30:58] searching off the road versus searching off the trails. And this article also points the finger at Guandique as the perp [31:06] And they even found a woman who said that she was on the trails the same day that Chandra went missing and she had run from him because she thought he was going to attack her. And this girl ran from him, didn't get attacked because she was listening to her instincts, [31:19] and girls staying alive. [31:20] This article reignites the investigation, mostly because the police needed to make themselves look better. They start looking at bringing a real case against him, and they get one of their best prosecutors to start building the case. And she tells police, why don't you go talk to him again? And when they get to his cell... [31:39] Like, you aren't even going to believe this. He has a picture of... [31:45] of Chandra Levy hanging over his bed. [31:48] What? [31:50] Right? [31:51] And... [31:52] And he has what looks like [31:55] A... [31:56] photo of Chandra tattooed on his body. Like a photo of her face. Uh... [32:03] Not cool. Not cool. It is making you look real. [32:07] bad and so investigators set up kind of a sting operation basically they try and catfish him with prison letters so one of the investigators poses as a woman and tries to get him to confess but through all of the letters he denied having anything to do with Chandra's case [32:25] Then, out of nowhere, a man approaches the prosecutors with information.

[32:30] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. [32:44] And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [32:49] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. [32:55] Listen to the deck now. [32:57] wherever you get your podcasts. [33:00] He is a jailhouse informant, and he says that he shared a cell with Guandique, and they had some kind of like similar gang affiliation, so they would look out for each other. And he said basically one day Guandique told him that he was the one who killed Chandra Levy. Like he confessed everything to him. So I'm a huge skeptic of Guandique. [33:21] like [33:22] jailhouse snitches why would why would he confess to this guy so he comes up with kind of a reason because i think they asked him that as well and he says that guandique had come to him and he's like you know i've always heard that if somebody's a rapist they will often try and rape them in jail and he's like listen i want everyone to know that i did not rape chandra levy like i was responsible for her death but i'm not a rapist so he says that's the way it came out in the confession [33:52] to know I killed this girl now one piece of information that he brings forward is he says that Gwondike told him that he had stolen her fanny pack and this is actually really plausible and something that was never told to the public and so when they hear this they're like there's no way he would have known this unless he actually talked to somebody who who had killed her now I

[34:13] I don't know... [34:15] how on like it's 2008 like people have fanny packs she had keys she didn't want to run with him it could have been something that was guessed it could have been something that was fed to him or it could be like legit and this guy could have actually told him with this informant and that extra bit of knowledge they indict [34:31] on first degree murder in May of 2009 and they take him to trial. He pleads not guilty and there isn't a ton against him. It's literally all circumstantial. There is zero physical evidence but the prosecution has a really good strategy. The first thing they do is they bring Gary Condit to the stand before the defense can even suggest that maybe he's a suspect and of course Gary has [35:01] any kind of affair he says he has nothing to do with it he had no reason to murder her because they were like [35:05] barely knew each other they were friends kind of acquaintances slash mentor whatever his story is and when the defense tried to like counter and ask if he had a sexual relationship he's like listen I don't have to go into this I told you that we were friends but I don't have to go into like my marriage and all of that stuff because I'm not on trial no charges have ever been brought against me and he's right the judge agrees with him doesn't make him answer any questions about

[35:35] of the investigation that whole line of questioning the next thing the prosecution does is they put the two other victims on the stand the two other women who were attacked by guandique and that he had served time for and confessed to and both of them get up there and talk about how scary it was being attacked by this man when they were alone in the woods how vulnerable they felt one of them starts breaking down crying on the stand and this really made the jury feel like a [36:02] what Chandra might have been feeling the last day that she was alive. It was a very, very effective strategy. And then the last thing they do is they put this snitch on the stand and he gets up and he's an [36:14] awesome witness he basically says like yes I was in this gang but I've turned my life around in prison I've never been an informant before and I'm just doing this because I want to help and he said basically Guandique told me he was high on drugs he needed money and he went to go attack Chandra to get money [36:33] to like steal from her. And he said something happened. There was like a scuffle and she becomes unconscious. So he ran and he said, Gondigue didn't know she was dead. [36:42] But he ran and she ended up dying. So he, you know, maybe wasn't like I wasn't trying to murder her, but it was like accidental and he's still responsible. [36:50] Now when it's the defense's turn, they don't have much, but they do introduce some things that we had never heard before. Apparently, in the wee hours of the morning before Chandra vanished, somebody in her building had called 911 because they had heard a scream from her apartment. But...

[37:10] This was never really investigated at the time. And to this day, we have no idea what that means. We have no idea who made the scream. We had no idea like... [37:18] What was from? Was it Chandra? Was it someone in her place? [37:21] No clue. So no one came out and investigated it? [37:24] know at least from what I can say I don't know if like they stayed on the phone and like it got diffused or I don't know if they came out knocked on the door and everything seemed to be fine there's no follow-up to this I have no idea [37:36] also apparently before the levies had even reported her missing when they were just calling around to locate her they had called the building manager and asked him to like slip some notes under her door so that when she got home she could know that her parents were really worried and apparently when the police came in to do that welfare check that one time there were several notes and you would expect them to be right under the door where the guy had slipped in but apparently the notes [38:06] Somebody was in there. After the notes were left and before police got there. Right. Before like everyone knew she had actually disappeared. And so the theory I think that they were trying to push forward is like there's this scream in the middle of the night. Maybe somebody killed her. Came back the next day. And then went back into the apartment to like clean up or to take away anything and make it look like they were there at all. Now it was an interesting theory but not interesting enough for the jury.

[38:36] of Chandra's murder and they sentenced him to 60 years in prison. [38:40] His defense eventually appeals the conviction, and when they do, a woman comes forward who says she has made friends with that guy who had actually been the snitch. She says... [38:50] that he told her he lied on the stand. And she's like, I have a recording of him telling me this. Now, she had recordings of a lot of their conversations, but it turns out that that particular sentence, the one sentence that they need, was never recorded. However, because of everything else that she had, it made him a bad witness. Because basically, it came out that he was still involved in gang activity. He did not actually turn his life around, like he said, on the stand. And he had said on the stand that he had never been an informant before, but he lied about that as well. [39:20] had snitched before. Because he was really all the prosecution had and now they didn't have him for this second trial, Guandique's conviction gets overturned and then the prosecutor decides not to refile charges and just deport him instead. So Guandique went back to El Salvador in May of 2017 and... [39:43] At least the last I heard, the Levy's still think he's responsible. At least they did at the time of the trial. There was an interview done with him over the phone from prison right before he went to El Salvador. And he still says that he has nothing to do with it. And as far as Gary, he went on Dr. Phil like in 2015. And he is still, like I said, to this day, denying the affair. And like it's almost like it's like the longer it goes, the less he pretends to know her. Because on this, he said, quote,

[40:13] at a restaurant and she came by my condo once. [40:17] Maybe twice. [40:18] Yeah, I think it was twice she came by. [40:21] Like... [40:22] It is really hard to believe him when he says in one breath he had nothing to do with her murder. And in that same sentence, he's saying maybe I saw her once or twice when that's clearly true. [40:33] A super big fat lie, you know? Yeah, and... [40:38] I could see some people even saying that maybe... [40:41] She had made the affair up, but the account of the hoops that he made her jump through... [40:48] are so similar to the other woman who came forward. [40:52] it's super unlikely that she just fabricated this whole thing for fun. Well, and again, they have his DNA, like... [40:59] In her apartment on her under – I can't – that's why I can't wrap my brain around why he's pretending like it never even came close to being a sexual relationship. Yeah. [41:08] So at one point, the Levy's had actually hired a private investigator, and he says that he is 100% sure, he's satisfied in his mind that he knows who did it, and it's not Guandique. He says that he's got his whole theory, and actually the first thing he points to is that the trail that she was found off of wasn't actually a jogging trail. It was a horse trail, and he said it was covered with rocks and roots, and he's like, there's no way somebody would jog on that. You would easily twist your ankle. [41:38] Thank you. [41:38] I think that she went out there to meet somebody. And he said there was something weird in her apartment, like a blanket that was just thrown inside the front door. And for whatever reason, I don't know if he knows it had just been cleaned or something, he thinks that she was in some kind of hurry to get out. So she like pulled it out of the dryer, left it on the floor, went to meet this person, and whoever she went to meet killed her. And he said in his mind he has the name of somebody that he thinks did it, but he can't prove it. So he'll never like say the name out loud

[42:08] or liable, stuff like that. Now, [42:11] I don't know who he's thinking, but as far as I know, there have only been two like real suspects. And if it's not Guandique, I have to imagine maybe he's talking about Gary Condit. [42:20] Now, police are no longer working on this case. Like I said, they're satisfied. They had their trial. They got their conviction. It got overturned. But in their mind, it's closed. Guandique did it. Like I said, at the time of the trial, the Levy's were satisfied that Guandique did it. I think Gary... [42:37] I don't know that he did it. I think he's just a super shady liar, like bad dude. And... [42:44] Every time he opens his mouth, he makes himself look worse. Yeah, and I mean... [42:48] We've all seen Scandal, right? He didn't have to have done it to have done it. Exactly. [43:03] Thank you guys so much for listening to this week's episode. We hope you enjoyed it. We would love to hear from you on Twitter at CrimeJunkiePod and on Instagram at CrimeJunkiePodcast. And our group on Facebook is always full of theories. [43:18] and different ideas on the cases that we cover. If you go to Facebook, just search Crime Junkie Podcast Discussion Group. We would love to hear your theories there. [43:26] And of course, we have our Propet of the Month segment at the end of this episode. So stay tuned after the credits to listen to... [43:35] a story about Foxy. [43:37] crime junkie is written and hosted by me all of our sound production and editing comes from brit prewatt and all of our music including our theme comes from justin daniel crime junkie is an audio chuck production so what do you think chuck do you approve

[43:59] *Mario's growling* [44:03] *music* [44:14] Oh my God, Brett. [44:17] Look at that dog. It is so cute. It's got its big nose or big fur. I like big mutts and I cannot lie. You other owners can't deny. When a dog walks in. Is this going to be a thing where you sing all the time? Yes, let me finish. When a dog walks in looking all kind of breeds, you get down on your knees and cuddle. Oh my gosh. It's my favorite. I do it all the time anyways. You need to enjoy it with me. [44:43] Okay, that's going to show up all over social media again. Good job. Big mutts and I cannot lie. All right, so who's our big mutt today? Today we are talking about Roxy. [44:54] And I love... It's... [44:56] I'm going to give you [44:57] Heads up, it is kind of a senior dog, but it's a really sweet song. [45:00] And she's still alive. [45:02] Good, I need that. [45:05] That's what I told you. So our listener, Crystal, said that they had been wanting to adopt a dog for a long time, for like four years. And she finally like... [45:16] cornered her boyfriend and was like, they have a clear the shelters event. And they went in like newbies, not expecting to find a dog that had like the particular requirements that they were looking for. Time out. Nobody ever goes in. Like that's how I have Charlie. Seven years ago, I went to an adoption event at PetSmart for a shelter just to look at,

[45:40] And seven years later, a zillion dollars in vet bills. [45:43] Like, guys, no. You're going into luck, but you're coming out with a dog. Just know what you're getting into. Okay, but Crystal and her family had a lot of very specific requirements. So they... [45:53] live in a kind of small apartment, so they knew they couldn't get a really big dog, and some, like, quote-unquote aggressive breeds were probably out. [46:01] They didn't want a puppy, which, same. And they didn't want a really yippy dog either. And Crystal especially didn't want... [46:09] an older dog because she was worried about having to deal with the dog aging and her kids and having to explain that, which I don't blame her. Totally. [46:19] And obviously had to be good with children and cats because they have two cats. [46:25] So they go through the whole facility, and there are so many cute pit bulls, which... [46:29] There always are. And her sons really wanted them, but she had to explain that their apartment wouldn't let them have one. And they actually put inquiries in about three dogs. And one was this sweet little beagle. And... [46:44] They couldn't see the beagle because the beagle was sick that day. But as the volunteer was walking the beagle to the vet, [46:52] clinic, Roxy came into the cage next to the beagle. [46:57] Oh. [46:58] And... [47:00] Thank you. [47:01] Crystal is serious when she says it was love at first sight. She flagged down the volunteer and said, I need this dog. Oh my God. Cue the romantic comedy music. Oh my God.

[47:13] Such a meet cute. [47:15] So Crystal looks at the bio, and it said, good with kids and cats. But she was a little bit older than what they had wanted. But at that point, Crystal was sold. How old? Yeah. [47:26] So they originally went in saying that they didn't want to adopt a dog older than five. [47:32] but Roxy was seven. [47:34] That's a real senior puppet right there. [47:39] They were... [47:40] getting the paperwork together, Roxy was around, and Crystal realized that suddenly they were the most popular people at the event. And all the volunteers were like, oh my god, you're adopting Roxy? Roxy's going home today? [47:53] you're getting Roxy? And everyone was super excited. And it turns out Roxy was surrendered to Orphans of the Storm, which is the shelter, when she was two. [48:05] Oh my God, so she'd been there for five years? She had been at the shelter for five years. Because it had been so long, there's like rumors that she had been actually adopted out once before, but they brought her back. Monsters. So Crystal's sitting there and doing the math. [48:24] And that whole time she was just sitting there waiting for them. [48:28] Oh, my God. [48:31] Roxy is the most beautiful, obedient dog. She has never had an accident, which... [48:36] is mind-blowing to me. Ever? [48:39] She said ever. What a little puppet god. They can let her out without a leash and she just walks right next to them. Nope. And they actually hate leashing her because she does way better without it. And this August...

[48:53] So appropriate prep of the month. Is there one year Roxiversary? Oh my God, happy Roxiversary, you guys. And here's like one of my favorite things is... [49:06] In addition to this perfect match of Crystal's family and Roxy, they get home. [49:11] and find out that one of the main volunteers who walked Roxy... [49:15] lives eight minutes away from them. Oh, come on. It was meant to be. [49:21] It really was. So the volunteer actually comes over and hangs out with Roxy. She dog sits for Crystal and her family when they go out of town. And we actually have a picture of Kristen dog walker with Roxy to put on our blog. So keep an eye out for that. And Crystal just wants to remind everybody that adopting older animals is... [49:40] so rewarding. Puppies are cute and adorable, but her heart really loves old animals. You guys, I'm the same way. It's so devastating. So many people get puppies, and then they return them, and they just become older dogs in shelters that nobody wants, but, like, those are the little puppets that need the love the most, and they appreciate it the most because they've spent so much of their life in a kennel. Oh, my God. Everyone go adopt a senior dog right now. I like them real thick and slobbery. Oh, my God. We're ending this right now. [50:09] - [50:12] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that?

[50:30] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [50:34] I think you'll love it too. [50:36] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.