MISSING: Sneha Philip

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And you guys, this is a special request episode from my new BFF, sorry, Britt, Patrick Hines from True Crime Obsessed. I was in New York a couple of weeks ago and got to meet him in real life. He is every bit as wonderful as I imagined. I'm so jealous. Oh, you should be. It was fantastic. And you know, their show is called True Crime Obsessed. Our show is Crime Junkie. And you guys, we named them because it's so real. [01:00] not even 20 seconds into meeting Patrick, he's like, hi, nice to meet you. Like, let's talk about this missing person case from New York. I have so many theories. So I promised him I would cover it on this week's episode. [01:12] And literally, I've been through hell and high water trying to make this happen. I got super sick. My sister was in the ER last night. My computer crashed this morning. And if I didn't know better, I would think that the podcast gods did not want this episode to happen. So we're doing this for you, Patrick. Yeah, we're doing it for you, Patrick. We have a show to do, people. And I have to tell you, because it is a super weird case. All of the circumstances surrounding this are so bizarre. And it is the disappearance of Sneha Phillip.

[01:42] Thank you. [02:12] Now, I want to say, Brett, starting out, I've heard some people pronounce her name Sneha, but I knew somebody whose name was spelled exactly the same way and she pronounced it Sneha. So I'm going to pronounce it Sneha. I couldn't find any news clips of her family speaking or saying her name. So I'm sure people email us if we get it wrong. But for now on, it's Sneha. So the story of Sneha Phillips' disappearance, the date that she was last seen and known to be alive was September 10th, 2001. [02:43] The next day, by the time her family realized she was missing, the entire country was consumed by the terrorist attacks that had occurred on 9-11. And it would take many years before her case reached any kind of resolution. Sneha lived in the city with her husband, Ron Lieberman. The two had met a few years earlier while attending med school in Chicago. And Ron was actually a year behind Sneha, but she decided that she wanted to graduate with him.

[03:12] Europe and after the two graduated they moved to New York City where they both secured residencies at different hospitals and then they ended up getting married in 2000. On the day of September 10th Sneha didn't have to go into work. She had to make a court appearance which I'll get a little bit more into later but Ron went with her to this court appearance and then after he said they had breakfast and then he had to go to work. Ron said that Sneha was planning on going back to their [03:42] they had an upcoming visit from her cousin that she was going to be like coming into town in just a couple of days. Ron arrived home later that night after his shift at the hospital and this was like 11 or 12 at night before he was home and when he arrived Sneha wasn't there. Now this wasn't super unusual for the couple. Sneha would often go out at night and then crash at her cousin's place or a friend's place or her brother's place but she would usually call Ron to tell him where she was [04:12] call. Now this is a little bit strange, but not enough to worry Ron just yet. He went to bed and then left for work early the next morning after waking up to still find that Sneha wasn't there. Now that morning was September 11th. Ron went to work and when he got out of his first meeting that morning, the world as he knew it was in shambles. One plane had already hit the first World Trade

[04:42] the second plane hit, it was mass chaos in the city and Ron couldn't stop thinking about Sneha. They lived just blocks from the towers. Was she okay? Did she ever make it home? He tried calling over and over, but with the sheer volume of callers using every ounce of bandwidth and the fact that one of the largest cell towers was on top of the World Trade Centers and was completely destroyed, it was hard to get through. The times that he was able to get connected, no one answered their home [05:12] have a cell phone and his messages to her became increasingly more panicked every single time he left a message. [05:20] I think it's hard for people to remember, especially some of our younger listeners or our international audience. I mean, that day was pure chaos. Nobody even knew what was happening. It felt like the world was ending. And so Ron was like, I just have to get back home. He hopped on an ambulance to get a ride back downtown. And from his hospital just to downtown, it took him six hours to get there. [05:50] he realized that he couldn't even get into his building. The door was run by power, but the power was out. So there's no way to get in. There's no way like he could even get in through stairs. He's like hoping and praying that she's just trapped inside. Like the building was safe. It wasn't collapsing. So he actually gets connected with some of his friends and he goes to their house to stay the night, barely sleeping a wink, just waiting for things to settle down so he could go home and make sure his wife was okay. That had to have been so scary. Terrifying. Like you said,

[06:20] It was like the world was ending and you can't find your spouse. Like, I, just thinking about it, I'm like a ball of tears. Right. And I mean, like, not only do you not know what happened to them, but I still, you know, a day out, we didn't really know what was happening at all. Like, the first plane hits and everyone's like, oh my God, this is a horrible accident. The second plane hits and this feels more intentional. But still, like, we couldn't wrap our minds around what was truly going on. Yeah. And I was going to say, even out here in Indiana, it was... [06:49] It was incredibly scary and we're so far removed from New York. Yeah, I can't imagine being in the city and then not knowing if your loved one is okay and not being able to get in touch with them. [06:59] The next morning, the doors had been opened to his apartment and he made his way up to their apartment to find a really eerie scene. A window had been left open and the entire apartment was covered in soot and ash. Nothing had been disturbed and the only footprints belonged to their cat. So he knew she had not been there and this made Ron even more frightened. [07:29] heard from her. [07:30] Ron had obviously tried reaching out to Sneha's family, but none of them were with her or had seen her since the 10th. Sneha's mom did mention, though, that on the 10th, that afternoon after she got home from court, Sneha had gotten online and IM'd with her mom. She seemed totally normal, nothing was bothering her. She did mention that she had to go run some errands, but nothing out of the ordinary. Okay.

[07:53] But as her mother thought back to their conversation, there was something that at the time meant nothing to her. But in a post 9-11 world was very ominous. Sneha had mentioned to her mother that one of her friends was going to be getting married at the Windows on the World, which was a restaurant in one of the towers. So Sneha had mentioned to her mom that she wanted to go sometime before the wedding to check it out. Now, she made no specific mention that she was going to go that day. [08:23] But that's the immediate sinking fear that everyone in her family had, like deep in their guts. What if she happened to be in one of the towers at the time that they were hit? [08:33] Right away, her family went to file a missing person report, but they were not the only ones. Thousands upon thousands of people were missing in New York City. It was just a day out from the attacks. The dust might have settled some, but rescue workers were just beginning their efforts to pull people both alive and dead from the rubble. [08:56] It was extremely hard for any one family to get a ton of attention for their missing person, but Sneha's family found it even harder when they mentioned that she was last seen on the tent. They said that police were already overwhelmed, so they took the report, but the attitude from the news outlets was very much like, listen, unless this is a 9-11 related story, people don't want to hear about it. So Sneha's brother did something that he would later come to regret.

[09:26] find everyone who was missing on the 11th before they'd even look for people missing on the 10th. So he concocted a story about being on the phone with her when the first plane ran into the building. And he said that she was there and told him that she couldn't leave because people were hurt and she needed to help them. And then he lost contact with her. So by concocted, you mean... [09:48] He lied? Totally fabricated it, yeah. Like, it later comes out, he was never on the phone with her, they never had this conversation, but he wanted something that would put her there. It was eye-catching. Yeah, so that they would, like, relate her to the 11th and put her on the news. And the lie worked. That story, along with her picture, were all over the national news outlets. But now that they had attention, it really confused the investigation, because they weren't sure if they should be looking in the Twin Tower rubble. [10:18] they made up, her actual last known location is much more perplexing. [10:26] I recently learned that after working out, performance and recovery come down to what's happening in your blood. Now, I pay a lot more attention to what's happening inside my body. And here's what most people overlook. Training gives your body the stimulus, but your internal environment determines what happens next. Thankfully, function can help you see exactly what's going on under the hood. Things like your glucose, whether your body is burning clean or running on fumes. Your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, which one is winning the inflammation battle. Your DHEAS, one of the building blocks your body uses to make testosterone. [10:56] one of the first things to quietly decline. When these markers are off, you can do everything right and still feel like you're fighting against yourself. Check in on your health. Function provides over 160 labs for $1 per day and member pricing on MRI and CT scans. Join at functionhealth.com slash crimejunkie or use gift code crimejunkie25 for a $25 credit toward your membership.

[11:16] When investigators really start to track Sneha's last movements on the 10th, what they find is interesting. They know she was in court with Ron that morning. Then she went back to her apartment, logged on to her computer from about 1 o'clock to 4 o'clock. And this is the time where she had that long IM conversation with her mother where she ended up by saying she had to go run some errands. She signs off at 4 p.m. and she is seen exiting her apartment on the security camera at 518. [11:46] Her stop was to the dry cleaner where she dropped off some clothes. Then she next was picked up on a camera a couple of blocks away inside a Century 21, which Midwest me was like, that is a real estate office. But no. That's exactly what I was thinking. No, in New York, that's actually a high-end discount clothing store. Oh, okay. So the video was super hard to find, but I'm getting pretty good at the Google. And it's pretty mundane. [12:16] which is the same clothing her husband said she left in that morning. And she's kind of just like skimming the racks. And she appears to be alone every time that we catch a glimpse of her. [12:26] At 6 p.m., she swipes her husband's credit card for about $500. And when they look at the transaction, she purchased a dress, pantyhose, lingerie, and bed linens. Uh, what do you mean by bed linens? I actually don't know. And I think it's a super important question to ask. Like, was it all new bedding? Was it just some sheets? Was it even the same size as their bed at home?

[12:56] found back at their house and they still have never been located to this day and i think the location of those bags are a big piece to this puzzle [13:05] If she didn't take them home, where else would they be? Well, the person who cashed out Sneha said that she was with another Indian woman. However, this woman was never captured on any video footage, so we can't confirm who she is. [13:19] or that she ever really existed. Sneha supposedly left with this woman, and that is truly the last confirmed sighting of her. When they pulled video footage from her apartment to see if she ever came home, they went through hours of footage from the 10th and then the 11th, and it wasn't until the 11th, around 8.40 in the morning, when something familiar comes into view. There's a woman who looks a lot like Sneha, [13:49] But it's hard to tell because at the time that she's in the building, it just so happens to be the exact same time that the sun is like streaming in and causing there to be this glare on the screen. Oh, no. Yeah, like what are the odds? Whoever this woman is, and to be fair, Ron says it looks a lot like his wife. [14:19] before the power goes out. If it was Sneha... [14:23] why didn't she have those bags with her? The woman in the video wasn't carrying anything. So what happened to all of the stuff that she bought? It has to be somewhere, right? I mean, I guess. And where did this woman go when she left the building? There are really two prevailing theories. The first is that if this woman is Sneha, she hears the crash and then goes outside. And when she saw what was happening, she could have run toward the scene to help people

[14:53] That would have been totally in her nature. And then she could have very likely been struck by falling debris and died. [14:59] I'm sorry, you're gonna have to refresh my memory. What time was the first attack? So the first attack was at 8.46. So I don't think she was standing in front of the elevator for six minutes, but it's not crazy to think that the clock on the camera could have been off by a few minutes. So that's theory one. Theory two is that if this is Sneha, she hears the crash, went outside to see what was happening. [15:29] that was going on, she decided that it was the perfect moment to walk away from her life forever. Forever. [15:36] Wait. [15:37] Why? This seems like an incredibly drastic decision. [15:42] kind of comes from nowhere. Well, if we were on the outside looking in at Sneha's life like we are, it seems like it's pretty great life. She's happily married, they're newlyweds, they're both doctors. [15:52] What reason would she have to walk away? But as investigators dug deeper into her life, they found, as we always do, that things are not always what they seem. [16:07] The veneer of Sneha's perfect life was cracking shortly before 9-11, and the first real sign of trouble was at the end of her second year in residency when she was terminated from her program. The hospital refused to renew her residency contract, citing renewed tardiness and alcohol-related issues. Apparently around this time, Sneha was going out a lot, drinking, crashing at other people's places.

[16:37] that she would crash at, Sneha would often meet people while she was out and just stay with them, [16:43] perfect strangers and a lot of people online theorize that this behavior is indicative of Sneha having affairs but no one has ever come forward to say that they were ever intimate with Sneha so we cannot know for sure. Now what we do know is that Sneha disagreed with their decision to terminate. She believed that she was let go because she rebuffed the advances of a co-worker and she thought that her being fired was some kind of retaliation. Now she wasn't going to just stand [17:13] she filed a sexual harassment complaint stating exactly why she thought she was being fired. Now, there ends up being an investigation into this, and their findings at the end basically say that her accusations were totally baseless, and they accuse her of filing a false complaint. [17:30] And now listen, this is kind of a he said, she said, and for whatever reason, people love the idea that Sneha had this dark double life. And I think they believe it makes sense. [17:42] Because it makes the story more fanciful. And maybe she did drink a lot and go out. But also, maybe this happened too. And I think I tend to side with her a little bit on this. Because I had a... [17:52] somewhat similar personal experience where I got fired from a hospital. And the reason that was cited was like, I missed like this PowerPoint training, but it was totally BS. Like I knew the reason I got fired is because I had just found out about an affair that was going on between like a head doctor and a department manager. And I remember that it was like Grey's Anatomy. Yeah, it really was. And so I got fired and I like, I didn't even have the guts to appeal

[18:22] manager. They have like all these people who are very loyal to them. I would be crazy to do that. But maybe Sneha thought that she could like, I mean, if she felt justified, she's a doctor too. I can totally see why she's like, no, I'm not going to just like let this go. Now, the one thing I will say is that when they terminate you, they have to cite something. So because they cited her tardiness and like alcohol abuse, I don't know if this was like maybe a one-time thing where she [18:52] really was a known issue. And at the end of the day, we really don't know. So to make a bad situation a little worse, when the investigation concluded, she was told either you recant your accusation or you're going to be prosecuted for filing false charges. And Sneha refused to back down. And that is why she had to appear in court on the 10th. Now, things are already bad. She's lost her first residency. She's fighting a legal battle. [19:22] piling on top of her. After Sneha was fired, she was able to bounce back and get a position at another hospital to continue her training. One condition of her placement is that she had to be enrolled in and regularly attend an alcohol counseling program. Well, she didn't attend one or more of her sessions, so she got suspended from her second residency, which is why she didn't have to even take off work on the 10th and why she didn't have to go to work on the 11th, making it

[19:52] at 8:40 now [19:55] there is even more I need to add into the mix that complicates this story even further. [20:04] You guys, I feel like we all have that one friend with that niche expertise. Like they have the best outfits, the most unique decor, amazing vintage jewelry or whatever. Well, imagine if you could shop right from their home or closet. That is what it's like on Whatnot. Now, if you've never been on this app, it is great. It's this live shopping experience where you can bid on the best stuff. I was just eyeing these like three container porcelain kitchen set thing. I think you put like flour and sugar in it. I don't know. I was going to have three different cookie jars basically. [20:34] flair to my new space. So I have been deep into the antiques and decor side of whatnot. But truly, there is a category for everything. I mean, with over 10,000 fashion, beauty, and bag sellers on whatnot, there is always something for every buyer to discover live right now. And the best part is the deals are unbeatable. You almost never pay full price. It is name brands, but without the retail prices. Download the whatnot app today and get free shipping on your first order. Just search [21:04] Start scoring amazing deals. [21:07] During the investigation, accusations were made that Sneha was bisexual. There were rumors that those nights when she stayed out late drinking and crashed with people that she just met, those were actually sexual encounters. Though there's never been, again, anyone who's come forward to say that they were with her or had any type of relationship with her.

[21:28] Wait, where did the bisexuality come from? I feel like what does it have to do with it and why bring it up? So here's why I think that it gets mixed in as opposed to her just having affairs with anyone. I think this is why people are honing in on maybe the fact that she had this double life and maybe she was bisexual. All of the bars that she went to were gay and lesbian bars, which for people wanting to say that she was bisexual gives their theory a little bit of credibility. But also I love gay bars. [21:58] And I'm not bisexual. I would say I have seen it happen. I can vouch for this fact. Yeah. And even her husband said, like, listen, she was recently sexually harassed. Like, that is the claim that she's making. And if that's the case, like. [22:13] Maybe she just didn't want to like go to a bar where she was going to get hit on all the time. [22:17] Yeah. [22:18] That makes a lot of sense. So to me, you're going to see... [22:21] you know, her choice in bars through whatever lens you want to. But there are also other things that propel this idea forward. There are reportedly two police reports that give credit to the theory that she was bisexual. One report was... [22:36] taken about their like encounter on the 10th. So the 10th is when Sneha goes to court. She has that appearance. Ron's with her. And there's this police report that says after the court appearance, her and Ron got into an argument about her behavior, about her staying out late and about specifically her bisexuality. Then there is this other report that says at the time of her disappearance, Sneha and her brother weren't on speaking terms

[23:06] bed with his girlfriend. Here's the thing though, these are in police reports. I have no idea what purpose would be served by the police for making this up, but her brother and her husband swear that both of those reports are a hundred percent [23:26] Like totally made up. And basically, what Ron said in a quote is he's like, either I'm lying or the police are lying and, [23:33] And I'm not lying. I mean, is there a chance that... [23:37] I feel like you and I have talked about it before on every 48 hours, you know, the victim was always... [23:43] lit up a room, was an angel. Is there any chance that they're just trying to [23:48] Is there a chance that they are lying, trying to make her legacy... [23:52] cleaner so it is totally possible but what i guess what i don't understand is if they are trying to preserve this memory of her and they just don't want it sullied i mean i guess they would have to really believe that she died in the twin tower somehow because if they didn't if they thought at all something could have happened to her on the 10th i mean you almost think you'd need to know everything about her right? [24:14] to see if we could find her. So it seems weird that they would want to, like, hinder the investigation into somebody that they love. Like, they've never been... [24:21] suspects never been persons of interest so in my mind like they would want to find her so why would you lie about who she could have possibly been with or her life it's just very strange so the one thing i keep [24:35] like wishing for is we've never heard anything from the,

[24:40] her brother's girlfriend. And I'd give anything to talk to her because she's the one accused of having an affair with Sneha. What does she have to say about all this? Does she have the same stance as everyone else that this is crazy? Have we not heard from her because people don't want us to hear from her because she'll like push this theory forward? Like, I really don't know. People really latch onto the idea of there being another woman. And I get why there's an easy connection to make like the cashier at the checkout of Century 21, who said she was with [25:10] another woman that day. "Yeah, but we never saw her on any of the video footage. [25:15] it's really just this one cashier, right? Right. But the one thing, this is what I keep going back to, it's a thing I'm obsessed with, is like, where are her bags? If she came back to the apartment and she wasn't carrying them with her, those bags have to be somewhere. Whose house or apartment did she take them to? And this is why I'm so obsessed with like, what size was the bedding? Like, could it have been for someone else? Can I throw out a quick little theory? Sure. So it doesn't excuse the dress or the pantyhose really, [25:45] You said her friend was getting married, right? Yes. But I don't know, like... [25:48] How far away? But still, like, it could be she was checking out the venue. She could have bought stuff for a lingerie party and a shower. That's actually like sounds pretty legit. And I hadn't ever thought of that before. Having just gone to a lingerie shower and a... [26:02] Wedding shower. [26:04] I tried to buy it all together and as quickly as possible. So it was just over with. So that's where my mind went, at least. [26:10] Okay, but here's the thing that doesn't also solve the like, where is the bag though? Because you would take that home, you would wrap it like you don't buy it and then like head right to her lingerie shower and then also give her bedding. Valid point. So I'm saying, I think whoever has these things, whoever might have been with her or whoever she went to see and wherever this bag is like that is the missing piece.

[26:40] something happened to her. So why wouldn't they come forward and say that they had her stuff or say at least if they didn't know where she was on the 11th, say where she spent the night of the 10th. And I think there are only three options here. Like either the person that she was with did something to her and this is like the cover for the perfect crime or the person she was with is still covering for her because maybe she did just decide she saw this explosion. She saw the [27:10] decided to just walk away from the life that she had, or... [27:14] The third option is that the person she was with was also... [27:18] killed in the attack somehow. And then you have this bag in their apartment when their family finds it. Like, it means nothing. They could have taken it with them, right? So I don't know why they would... [27:29] Because again, it would have been a day later, right? Yeah, she buys all this stuff on the 10th. And then if we believe that it's her scene on the security footage, she doesn't have it with her. I guess the only way it makes sense for her to have it with her is if that person on the security footage was never her. She stays wherever she stayed on the 10th. And then she's like walking somewhere with the bag on the 11th and then gets caught up in all of the madness. Yeah. [27:52] Now, I will say that, you know, when we're talking about this idea of her wanting to just walk away from her life or her idea of having the secret double life, police did a forensic sweep of her computer and nothing in there suggested that she was having any kind of affairs with men or women. And there was nothing that indicated she was planning to walk away from her life. Okay, but that doesn't really mean anything.

[28:15] The theory is that she saw this as an opportunity to disappear. So she probably didn't research it that much. Right. It very well couldn't have been planned. It could have just been something she was struggling with. She sees this thing happen and decides to leave. But her family doesn't think that this is even in the realm of possibility. They say that most of the stuff being said about her is total fiction. And again, I don't know if they're just trying to preserve her memory or if this is all really a lie. If it's a lie, why? [28:45] lesbian with a drinking problem. Like it helps no one. Did the police ever look at anyone in the family as a suspect or a person of interest? I'm sure police vetted them, but they were never listed as persons of interest or suspects. And this is one weird thing that happened though. Like I think it's strange and I don't know where it fits in the story. In the early morning hours of the 11th at like 4 a.m., [29:06] Someone from Sneha and Ron's apartment called Ron's cell phone, which is weird. And police assume that maybe it was just Ron checking his voicemail, maybe to see if Sneha had called him. [29:20] And I don't know why you just wouldn't use your phone. I mean, it's 2001. Maybe you're worried about minutes. [29:25] I don't know, but it's just a weird piece of info I see pop up over and over when talking about, you know, could they ever be a suspect? I think the general answer is no, but there's this weird phone call that I don't think has ever been 100% explained away except for the police's theory that it's him calling the voicemail. [29:40] Now, no one has ever come forward to say that they were with Sneha on the 10th or had ever seen her after the camera picked her up at the Century 21. There were no more transactions ever made on any of her banking cards. And without any new leads, her family became more convinced than ever that she died as a result of the World Trade Center attacks. And they think she remains one of the over 1,000 unidentified victims.

[30:10] as one of the deceased, but the court ruled that she likely died on the 10th since that's the day that she was last seen. A later court eventually overturned this, and in 2008, she was officially listed as the 2,751st victim of the attacks. There's this choker that she always used to wear, and her family sent a photograph of that to the team in charge of identifying all these unknown victims, and they hope that that choker might be the thing that someday will be the piece of [30:40] found to give them closure to know where she is. [30:44] But... [30:45] there is always that chance that it won't be found because she was never there. And do you want to hear something that will give you full body chills? Always. Have you ever heard of Post Secret? Oh, yes. Love Post Secret. Yeah. So for everyone who doesn't know, it's this ongoing like online community art project where people mail in like their secrets. They mail it in anonymously on one side of a postcard. [31:15] Every Sunday. Well, there's this postcard that comes in that has been forever linked to Sneha's case because it is this picture of like the Twin Towers burning and it's in like a Sophia black and white ish. And at the very top. [31:31] It just says, everyone who knew me before 9-11 believes I'm dead. Oh my God. [31:39] Is it a hoax?

[31:40] Is it from her? [31:42] We don't know. We don't know if Sneha died a hero that day trying to save people. Or we don't know if she could be living a new life with a new name, leaving her old life behind in the ashes. [32:12] or you can check it out on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast. And be sure to follow us on Twitter at Crime Junkie Pod. And we will be back next week with a brand new episode. [32:45] This episode of Crime Junkie was researched, written, and hosted by me with co-hosting by Brit Prewatt. All of our editing and sound production was done by David Flowers. And all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [33:09] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that?

[33:27] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [33:31] I think you'll love it too. [33:33] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.