MURDERED: Faith Hedgepeth

[00:00] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. For some of us, summer means more juggling, which can lead to overwhelm and worry. BetterHelp makes it easy to get the support you need. Having served over 6 million people globally, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. They'll match you with a quality licensed therapist so you can focus on your therapy goals. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash crimejunkie. That's betterhelp.com slash crimejunkie. [00:29] Hi, Crime Junkies, it's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap, it is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:59] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And the story I have for you today honestly feels like a roller coaster ride. Because after a young woman was found murdered in her apartment, the investigation would lead to almost a decade crammed full of twists and turns and ups and downs, all with a mission to find justice once and for all. [01:22] This is the story of Faith Hedgepeth. [01:26] Thank you.

[01:56] On Friday, September 7, 2012, news hits the University of North Carolina community that a student named Faith Hedgepeth has died off campus in the town of Durham. [02:08] Details are scarce. All police will tell the public is that her body was found in her apartment by some friends and that her death was not accidental. Faith had been murdered. Now, police won't elaborate on how exactly Faith died or give any details about the crime scene. But even without a lot of details, though, both Durham and the whole campus are totally rocked by the news of her murder. [02:38] safe place. They don't see a lot of crime like this, certainly not at the campus and certainly not murder. [02:45] But while the public is waiting on pins and needles to learn more about what happened to Faith, the police start acting, I mean, I don't want to say strange, just different from how everyone expects them to. Like for us, I mean, we're kind of used to seeing police keep certain information pretty close to the vest, right? During like an open investigation. Yeah, definitely. So this community isn't really used to that at all. [03:15] tight-lipped the Chapel Hill police are right from the get-go. According to WRAL News, all law enforcement will say is that, yes, Faith's death is a homicide, and they don't believe that her death was random, which to me kind of sounds like they're implying that she knew the person who killed her. Or at the very least, it was maybe planned and she had been targeted for some reason. Right. But they don't say anything about why someone would have wanted to kill her. And no

[03:45] Like WRAL, that same news station, had video up with this unnamed guy who said that he used to live with Faith back when he was dating her roommate, and even he can't think of any reason for her murder. [03:57] Do the police at least release how Faith had died? Nope, nothing publicly. Faith's mom, Connie, eventually tells the Daily Tar Heel that Faith's death certificate says that she was beaten to death. But police don't confirm or deny that at the time, leaving her friends and family, I mean... [04:17] Honestly, at this point with so many questions. Yeah. Now, little by little, the press would get bits and pieces of information and interview here, a little article there. And a picture was starting to form a faith and her life in the time leading up to her death. [04:37] In October 2012, Mandy Locke reported for the News and Observer that when she died, Faith was living with a girl named Carina Rosario, sharing this one bedroom apartment while Faith waited for her financial aid money to come in. But that's not like the really interesting part. According to this article, Carina used to date this guy named Eric Decoy Jones. He's 21 years old and Carina has a restraining order out against him after the relationship got really violent. [05:07] to stay away from Karina. He's supposed to stay away from the apartment. I mean, honestly, even like the university for the whole year. But I'm not so sure he stayed away because remember that random person who was interviewed by WRAL? Yeah, it was Eric. And get this, the public learned that Faith is actually the person who drove Karina to the courthouse to get this restraining order

[05:37] that police are looking into this guy at this point. Well, so this is the thing. They won't say. All anyone knows at this point is his name, his age, and that maybe he should be considered a person of interest because of how he was connected to Faith, but no one's willing to confirm that he actually is, and he's definitely not being called a suspect. Like, that's how tight-lipped all of this information is. They're not sharing anything. And so with so little about a possible suspect to focus on, [06:07] Faith to try and understand who would want to do this to her. And learning more about her just kind of amplifies this sense of loss because really she did have such a bright future. You see, Faith was on track to be the first person in her family to graduate from college, and she was studying to be a pediatrician to help this very specific group of kids, Native American kids who came from the Halawa-Saponi tribe just like she did. [06:37] or in a super rural area, I think it's important to mention that indigenous women like her are 10 times as likely to be murdered than white women, and four out of five will face violence in their lifetime. Now, you know, when I was researching Faith's case, I could really see all these different groups of people whose lives that she had touched and how they all found themselves united by this tragedy as they just kind of waited for answers. And they had to do

[07:07] It took four more months before anything new came out. But in January of 2013, the public gets their first look at the details of the investigation as police start releasing little bits of information. [07:21] The Daily Tar Heel reported that in the hours before she died, Faith was out clubbing with Karina at this under 21 nightclub called The Thrill. And that's where she was last known to be alive at 3 a.m. on the morning of September 7th. At this time in the winter of 2013, the Chapel Hill police also announced they've been working with the FBI's behavioral analysis unit to create a profile of Faith's killer. [07:51] The FBI believed that Faith knew the person who killed her. That person may have lived nearby and the killer's behavior might have changed after she died. Like, for example, they said that this person might be a little too interested in the investigation. [08:09] So... [08:10] You'd think finding someone who knew her, finding somebody that lived near her and who was inserting themselves into the investigation would be pretty easy. I mean, with this profile. But days and weeks go by with, like, no arrests. There aren't even any updates from the police. Like, hey, FYI, we're still working on this. Like, nothing's happening. You know what I mean? Like, there's just nothing. Right. You'd think that you'd have something. Yeah. No press conferences, no announcements. So the public is still left totally in the dark.

[08:40] family. I could see not announcing, you know, what they're working on to the public, but you kind of hope that the family is being kept in the loop, right? No. So again, this is the thing. Even they are kept in the dark. Like Faith's family gets kind of the bare minimum from police about what might have happened to her and what's going on. But basically, like she was murdered. We're investigating it. We're working on it. And that's like nothing. Yeah. I mean, so they're not giving the family much. They're not giving the public much. And the police even [09:10] keep information away from the media too. As Chelsea Delaney wrote for Synapse's website, the Chapel Hill police go to court and they basically get all the documents related to Faith's death put under seal. What? Yeah. These seals usually last anywhere from like 45 to 60 days. And so instead of like letting it come up and then giving access to the records or to anything to the public or whatever, they basically keep getting this renewed over and over and over, fighting all attempts from the media to get access to any information. [09:40] Now, I saw some speculation in that same Synapse article that the Chapel Hill police may have mishandled the investigation in those crucial early days. And they were using these seals as a way to cover their tracks. And honestly, that was probably in a lot of people's conversations in the area at the time. Like, why are they going to this extent to make sure no one knows anything about what happened to this girl?

[10:10] apartments in Faith and Karina's building or the woods behind the building, which if that's real, I mean, I can see why you don't want that out there. That's just honestly straight up incompetent. Right. Now, the police haven't confirmed or denied any of what's theorized, so I can't say for sure. But it is odd, though it's not unheard of. Like we've talked about other cases where files are sealed to maintain the integrity of the investigation. But what I find so weird, I guess [10:40] Not keeping the family up to date seems really off to me. Yeah. Or even like explaining to the family why they're putting the seals in place. Right. I know it doesn't look great, but like we're doing this, like you said, to preserve the integrity of the investigation. Which I'm sure they said that, but that's not like, you know, to a grieving family information. Right. But whatever reason they sealed it, they do. [11:10] in the dark. But then things start to change in July of 2014, almost two years after Faith was murdered. As ABC News 11 reported, law enforcement slowly start changing their tune and they start releasing bits of information. And the first thing they release to the public is actually Karina's 911 call. She was the person who had found Faith that morning. And when the public

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[13:14] Start scoring amazing deals. [13:19] Here, I want to play you part of this 911 call. So there are actually clips of this all over the internet, but the only full link that I could find is actually posted over on the Murder Squad's website, which we have linked over to on our website. But here you go. Take a listen. [13:35] 11:01 AM 44: September 7, 2012. Ndara 911, where is your emergency? Hi, I just walked into my apartment and my friend is just like completely unconscious. [13:58] Okay, what's your address, ma'am? I live at Hawkins, I miss you. Give me the address. [14:07] I just moved here. I'm about to get it. Oh my god. It's I-[redacted address] in Durham. [14:21] Okay. Repeat it to me so I'll make sure I've got it correct. [14:29] Okay. 5-6-3-[redacted address] is a private signal cue. [14:36] 1602. [14:38] Yes. What's the phone number you're calling from? [14:42] Okay, you say your friend is unconscious? He's unconscious. I just walked in the apartment and there's blood everywhere. Okay, listen to me. Okay, listen to me.

[14:52] Listen to me. Somebody's already sending me ambulance. Okay? I need to get some information from you, and I'm going to... [14:58] I'm going to tell you how to help her, okay? Okay. Okay. How old is she? [15:06] She's 18. Okay. Okay. [15:11] Thank you. [15:12] I don't know. I don't want to touch her, but... Listen to me. Is she breathing? I don't know. You need to check and see. Is she breathing? [15:22] Kate, I don't think so. [15:28] I don't think so. Okay, listen to me. There's people everywhere. [15:34] There's what? There's blood everywhere. Okay. [15:39] I don't know what's happening. Okay, is she on her back or is she laying on her stomach? [15:46] Yeah. [15:48] I think she fell off the bed because she's like off the bed. They fled all over the pillows like in the comfort of it. [15:59] I just don't know what happened. [16:03] Okay. [16:05] All right. Listen to me, all right? [16:07] There's someone coming. Yes, I've got somebody coming. I've got somebody coming. [16:11] I need for you to help her. I need for you to go up to her. We need to see if she's breathing or not. Okay? I don't think so.

[16:23] Okay. [16:24] Listen to me. Go up. The paramedics are on their way. I want you to stay on the line. I'm going to tell you what to do next, all right? Are you right by here now? Yes. Okay. [16:38] Listen carefully. She's not moving. Okay. Will you touch her arm? Tell me how does she feel? She's not moving. Okay, ma'am. We need to find out if we can help her or not. [16:55] You've got to do as I'm asking so we can help her. [16:59] All right? Okay. If you can, lay her flat on her back. [17:06] Remove any pillow. [17:09] Lay her flat on her back. Flat on her back. Remove any pillow. [17:13] Thank you. [17:14] Okay. Okay. [17:16] kneel next to her look in her mouth for food or vomit okay kneel next to her look in her mouth for food or vomit [17:26] Tell me something. Listen to me. What is your name? [17:31] Dang it. [17:33] I'm sorry. I'm really tired. It's okay, honey. It's okay, honey. I don't know. Okay. All right. [17:39] Listen to me. When you touch her, how does she feel? [17:42] Does she feel warm? [17:44] No, she feels cold. She feels cold? Okay. Yes. Okay. All right. Don't touch anything else. Okay? Don't touch anything else. Okay. They're on their way. I've got police on the way to you and I've got them. I can't believe this. Okay.

[18:07] Okay. What room is she in? [18:10] He's in my bedroom. Okay, I want you to go back into the living room, okay? I don't know what's going on. There's something in my room that was not here before. It looks like someone came in here. It really does. Okay, Ashley, I know I say this every time we listen to a 911 call. I'm going to be a 911 call. [18:38] But you can never know how you're going to respond walking into a scene like this. But to me, so much of this call just doesn't feel... [18:47] right to me. And when I first listened to it, when you told me we were going to cover this case, I went straight to the statement analysis blog. I figured, yep. I knew they'd have something to say about this call. And of course they came through and I was like, [19:02] Again, a lot of what felt weird to me felt weird to them, too. So a few things that stuck out to me were the fact that Karina never actually says... [19:12] Faith's name. Yeah. Like she keeps referring to her as her friend, which is not only like distancing herself from Faith, but it's for me at least kind of confusing because there's no establishment that Faith even is living at the apartment. Like it's not even like my roommate. Well, to play devil's advocate for like a second, again, going back to you don't know how you're going to react. The only thing I can think, and I don't even know if you're thinking this rationally

[19:42] who Faith is. Like, I can see being so freaked out that I'm like my friend, my friend, because I just, [19:46] To me, that makes sense to tell somebody who doesn't know. But I again, like I did, I did find it weird. I just feel like it's worth mentioning. I'll give you that. And like, I guess for me, I would think that I would want to say like, my roommate to establish like she was supposed to be here in the first place. And on top of that, Karina. [20:03] Continues to say it's her apartment, not their apartment. That was weird, right? [20:08] I came home to my apartment. I just walked into my apartment. And so we have not only [20:13] distancing, [20:15] Faith away from roommate to friend, we're distancing her possession or her right to the apartment to a certain extent. And then, when I was listening to the call at least, I couldn't figure out which room Faith was in. [20:27] in? Like, Karina initially says Faith is in Karina's bedroom, but then she says, there's stuff in my room that wasn't here before, it looks like someone came in here, and... [20:37] With that statement, like if my roommate was dead on my bed, it would definitely confirm that someone else had been there. Right. So this is the thing. Let me tell you about researching this case, that this is actually something that I spiraled on for a long time because I couldn't figure out was Faith and Faith's room was Faith in Karina's room. Yeah. The best thing that I came to is I actually think it was a one bedroom apartment, which is actually something I said at the top of the episode. Oh, so I think because, again, this wasn't supposed to be a permanent situation, which also is. [21:07] maybe why she kept saying my apartment again, like faith was waiting for her financial aid money to come in. So, so, [21:12] Again, this could be wrong. This is based on the source material that I found, but it was so confusing. No one just says it outright. I kind of had to infer things. But I believe they were temporarily sharing a one bedroom apartment. So the room that she found her in and the room when she says stuff is is weird in her room, it is all the same room. Or potentially could be as far as we know. Right. Exactly. OK. OK. So that helps clear that up a little bit.

[21:42] which we've heard how many of these? It's a totally routine question you're asking the situation. You need nowhere to go. Right. And if you're making that call, [21:50] I would expect to have the address ready. But Karina kind of stumbles over the address and actually pauses to tell the operator that she has to [21:58] look it up or find it. And [22:02] I mean, I moved last year and there are still days where I stumble over my address versus my old address. So I kind of get it, especially if they had just moved in. Right. OK, so here's another thing that I, again, kind of went in circles with because everyone like when I read online or I'll read like blogs or whatever on this, everyone's like, oh, they just moved in. That's why she doesn't remember. But. [22:21] In a lot of the interviews, the actual source material we use, which is on our website, a lot of it says that she had at least been there for a couple of months already. And from one source, I found at least Eric to Koi Jones, her like ex-boyfriend had they had lived together in this complex or maybe even in that specific apartment. So I don't think it was like she got there a couple of days ago. Based on what I have, she was at least there for a couple of months from what I can find. [22:51] least have a [22:52] a general enough idea that you could get paramedics there, I would feel like. Right. Like looking it up just seems like she has no idea where she is. You could at least say, you know, the apartment complex name, right? Yeah. Door number like there, especially in a complex, there are so many different markers that. [23:09] that you could use if you don't have the exact address, at least to get...

[23:13] you know, someone, some sort of help dispatched out there. [23:16] But I guess that makes me call into question why Karina feels the need to lie, because she says, you know, I just moved in here. [23:25] What's the point of saying something like that? It has nothing to do with the task at hand. And yeah, I mean, but again, devil's advocate. Everyone's like definition of something could be different. So, you know, if you lived in your parents' house your whole life and you've been in this department a couple of months, you might have just moved in. Like, again, I don't love it. It feels fuzzy. But, you know, it's not like she is saying an outright lie where she's saying, like, I moved in yesterday. She's just giving a vague statement that I think everyone can interpret differently. It's a generalization, essentially. [23:55] But speaking of generalizations versus pinpointing something, something that statement analysis pointed out was, you know, she really... [24:03] emphasizes that she had just walked in. Like she says it a handful of times. And according to a statement analysis blog, it kind of indicates that she wants to drive home the point that there was no way that she could know anything that happened because she was not here before this very moment. Yeah. So I think what I find strange about that, I mean, as many times as you want to say it, [24:33] There doesn't seem to be any urgency on her part to get out of there. Like, you don't know that the guy isn't still there, right? Yeah. And even the operator asks her a couple of times, like, can you go...

[24:44] sit in the living room? Can you leave the room where you are?" And Karina just kind of continues to recount [24:51] how the room looks different, that there's things missing, someone's moved stuff. And on one hand, like the crime junkie in me is like, I would want myself to stay there and like assess the crime scene to be able to give like the best recounting if I needed to. But the human in me, I would just want to get the heck out of Dodge and I'd be bolt. Yeah. Like you said, like you have no idea if there's not still somebody in the house looking for you. Right, right. So this call being made [25:21] dart of all of this new information about Faith's murder being unsealed. And the call is literally the tip of the iceberg because on September 5th, 2014, almost exactly two years to the day after Faith was murdered, the police do a total 180 and they release over 100 pages worth of records. They say that it's their way to try and get more media attention on the case and see if someone [25:51] Wait, that... [25:52] seems so strange to me. They have had these records sealed for what, like two years, you say? Yeah, yeah. Two years at this point. And that's like the beginning of the investigation. When things are the hottest, when people's memories are the most accurate, you seal them for two years and then say, actually, we want the public's help. Yeah. We want to put all this out here. Well, so the fact that they did this kind of makes me think that there wasn't some big cover up.

[26:22] Whether the records got released back then, whether they get released now, like you still see what happened in the investigation. So, you know, that was the case. Like, I don't know why waiting two years would help. And there was nothing like uncovered, like, oh, my God, this was, you know, the big, awful thing that the police did. So, you know, my gut is kind of saying that maybe they're being honest. Maybe they really just didn't want things to get out that would harm the investigation. But, you know, when two years go by and there's no arrest and nothing's happening, that maybe then they're willing to open up a little bit. [26:52] I couldn't tell you why they did the things that they did in the order that they did them. But anyway, so for the first time, the public gets a much clearer picture of Faith's last movements the night that she died. So we know Karina said that she and Faith went out clubbing at the Thrill. And now the public can see from the police records that there's video evidence that seems to confirm at least part of her story. [27:22] They dance until about two when Karina says that she doesn't feel good and wants to go home. And according to ABC News, they're on video again, leaving at 2.06 a.m., right in line with the time frame Karina gave police like back in the early days of the investigation. [27:38] The records also shed some light on what they did after they got home. So according to these records, both Karina and Faith were texting this guy named Brandon, who Karina hooked up with sometimes and who was actually at the thrill with them. So later that night, around 340 in the morning, there is this text from Faith's phone asking this Brandon guy to come over and see Karina.

[28:08] record. [28:09] Sure. [28:10] The text says, quote, [28:11] "Hey Bee, can you come over here please?" [28:14] Karina needs you more, aha. You know, please let her know you care. [28:19] End quote. [28:20] The general line of thinking is that, aha, you know, was a typo because Faith followed that up just a minute later with the word than. So I think what she's trying to say is Karina needs you more than you know. So Faith texts this to Brandon, but according to police records, he doesn't answer until 416 a.m. And do you want to read his response? Sure. His response is, quote, no. [28:45] Who is this? [28:47] End quote. [28:48] Oh, that is not a great response. Yeah, it's weird. And I really don't know what to make of it because from what I read, like I said, Karina and Brandon used to maybe hook up, but they weren't together at this time. And there's no real context for why Karina would need him and why these messages were coming from Faith, since it clearly seems like maybe Brandon didn't even have Faith's number. [29:18] on Karina's behalf or even reach out for anything. Right. Because he didn't have her number saved. But that's not all that we learn. The records show that Karina was texting a different person around this time, this guy named Jordan. And from what I can tell, it was like a little like, hey, you up text. So he comes and picks her up around 430 or so in the morning. And she wound up spending the night at his place for like the rest of the night. According to everything she

[29:48] when she left. And it wasn't until the next morning that Karina even knew anything was up because apparently she had tried calling Faith to get a ride home from Jordan, but she wasn't getting a reply. So she ends up calling another friend, this girl named Marisol. And Marisol was actually with her in the apartment when she got home and found Faith's body. [30:08] Karina didn't say anything about anyone else being there, let alone Marisol on that 911 call, did she? No, that's the thing. She doesn't. And that doesn't go unnoticed by people either. Like, again, we keep seeing it with this case. It's just like layer after layer of things that don't add up. And really, I have zero answers about why Marisol wasn't mentioned or why you can't even hear her on the call. [30:38] possible while all of this is unfolding and even after. And if there's a reason for this, like she hasn't said, Karina hasn't said, so I [30:47] you know, we're kind of to assume that like, you know, again, crazy time. You don't know how you're going to react. I didn't think to say that her other friend was there. But it's one of those things that if you look up this case online, people kind of pick apart. If someone was with you, like, why don't you say that? So back to these two guys, the ones that they were texting with and the one that Karina left with. Do the police records have anything about these two guys? Yeah. So there's not a huge amount out there about them, just that they were UNC students

[31:17] Brandon because there is a copy of this search warrant for a car connected to him. And Investigation Discovery's special, Who Killed the Co-Ed, reported that he's actually cleared by DNA testing. So Brandon's a no-go for sure. [31:30] Wait, wait, wait. Back up. DNA? Yeah. Yes. So that is the really big bombshell that we learn from these police records. The reports give a ton of information about how Faith was found and the specific evidence that police have. So let me lay it out for you. [31:50] Faith's body was found half hanging off a bed, naked from the waist down, with her t-shirt pulled up over her head. And this was a brutal scene. [32:03] Blood was everywhere. Blood was pooled underneath Faith, spattered all over the room. Even the blanket that partly wrapped around her body didn't conceal all of the horror. [32:15] According to the police record and investigation discovery, Faith suffered blunt force trauma to the head, along with cuts and bruises on her arms and legs. Now, the records also say that police found a bloody rum bottle in the room that they think could be the murder weapon. So, Faith. [32:33] Again, you can imagine this was a savage attack. Yeah. But here is where things get less clear to me. And it revolves around that DNA. And I think, you know, this is the most important piece of evidence that we have. Per investigation discovery, there was semen next to Faith's body.

[33:03] body. [33:05] It's a little unclear to me where exactly the semen is found, or if it could be in multiple places. But it's kind of safe to assume that whoever killed her... [33:16] also sexually assaulted her, right? [33:19] I don't know, maybe, probably. I mean, it's a real gray area because I have not seen a definitive yes or no anywhere. But I think the general belief is that, yes, she was either raped or someone attempted to rape her. [33:49] and semen at the scene. So that, to me, points to some kind of assault, or at least an attempted one. Just give me a second. I'm still piecing a lot of this together. [33:58] The public finds out about the DNA when the police reports are released. Right. [34:03] That means that [34:04] all these years, they had that specimen to compare to suspects and they still [34:11] don't have anyone? Yeah, but buckle up because it gets weirder. As these documents show, the semen sample isn't the only thing police found next to Faith's body. [34:24] The police records show that someone also left a note next to Faith's body scrawled on a biscuit bag from this fast food place. Brett, I'm going to show you a picture so you can see exactly the note and the bag that I'm talking about.

[34:39] Okay, so this note says... [34:42] I'm not stupid, jealous. [34:45] But before we even get to that, where's the blood? You said this was a gruesome, bloody crime scene. And this white paper bag... [34:54] is kind of pristine we're on the same page because that is exactly what i noticed too like i feel at the very least the bag should have some kind of splatter on it like granted we just see one side of it i don't know what the other side looks like but in what we see i don't see any blood which to me has to mean that it was placed there after faith was killed right [35:18] I mean, I guess, but... [35:20] Everything about this note is just such a massive, [35:23] I'm sorry, what? Yeah. And then it's so much to unpack in just those five words. Well, I mean, even before we get into what it means, I think it's important to talk a little more about how it's written, because here's the thing. I've heard about Faith's story a ton before. I knew about this bag before I started researching this case on my own, but actually seeing it because I never saw it before. This is a whole nother thing. If you're listening, you have to go to our Instagram, [35:53] podcast.com to check this out because you have to see it with your own eyes to understand, I think, why it's important. [36:00] Yeah, so it's just this white paper sack that's kind of all crumbled up and then maybe smoothed out again for the handwriting. [36:08] The handwriting is kind of big and scrawling. It reminds me of how I would write on moving boxes, like all caps, kind of rushed kitchen stuff, if that makes sense. Yeah, I always pictured it like in someone's handwriting.

[36:23] But... [36:24] Honestly, like, I think my moving boxes are better written than this because this is like... [36:29] I don't know if they're going fast or somebody's trying to write with their non-dominant hand. Or like on an uneven surface. Yeah. Like they're writing on the bed so it's not... [36:37] really straight or clear or maybe even like holding it up with like nothing to write like nothing holding the back you know what i mean like nothing's bracing it because it just looks like chicken scratch really yeah like you said it's almost undiscernible but i'm assuming that they attempted to match it to faith and karina and it didn't match yeah [36:54] So, [36:55] I don't know. Like, I don't know exactly if they tried to match it or not. But without knowing who wrote the note, I mean, you could speculate on what it means for dates and like what the motive was behind it. And I mean, really, if you keep an open mind, right? [37:10] It could be anything. [37:12] Uh, I... [37:13] Yes, but... [37:15] Devil's advocate. That note sounds terrible. [37:17] angry and personal. [37:20] On top of that, it's not just found in the kitchen or on the sidewalk. It's found next to a dead girl. No, I get it. And if you're looking at it and assuming that it's part of this case, I'm not stupid, jealous. [37:35] Like the first place my mind goes is some kind of love triangle. Like I'm not stupid. I know what's going on. But if that's the case, I guess I don't understand the difference. [37:43] jealous word then? Like who is who's supposed to be jealous of who? Again, I feel like we could talk this note to death, but I don't want this whole episode just to be about this note. But here's the one thing I will say.

[37:56] I think it was put there after she was already dead because of the lack of blood on there. If the note does have meaning... [38:05] It's definitely from someone who's angry at faith. And what I do know about killings that are motivated by anger is that the act is never done. [38:15] over until the anger subsides. So even after she's dead, if the killer is still mad, they could scrawl this angry note as this like, in your face, one more way to just like have the last word. [38:30] But what if someone wrote this note intentionally trying to throw off the investigation, like a complete red herring? OK, well, that's been theorized, too. Again, I could spend a whole 40 minutes talking about this thing, but I just need everyone to go look at it and tell us your thoughts. But when you do, keep this in mind. [39:00] you know, inside the apartment. And the pen also had DNA on it. And when they tested the DNA and compared it to their DNA sample from the semen, it was a match. So, [39:15] we know that it has something to do with it. To your point, could it be a red herring? Yes. Could it actually be a message about someone's true motives? Yes. Now, again, this was like no big secret to say that they had DNA. Like, this is years later. They're releasing all of these records to the public. But we know that there's no DNA match to this point. But just because police haven't named a suspect or a person of interest,

[39:45] and finding a prime suspect of their own. Someone whose actions fit right into the FBI's profile of a killer. [39:56] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases, and in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [40:15] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now, wherever you get your podcasts. [40:26] When combing through the police records, we learned that right at the beginning of the investigation, police actually did have their sights set on someone. Someone who might actually have been jealous of faith, like that note said. And it was Karina's ex-boyfriend, Eric Takoy Jones. [40:46] Eric's name was originally redacted in the reports, but it didn't take long for multiple media outlets from local newspapers to national publications to confirm his identity. The reports paint a pretty bleak picture of Eric and Karina's relationship.

[41:16] kicked a couple of doors off their hinges. Oh, my God. And we know that property damage is a big red flag of an abusive relationship. It's totally kind of like an intimidation. Totally. I mean, it's a control mechanism. So Faith, seeing her best friend suffering in this really toxic relationship that was now spilling over into her life, too, did what I think any of us would do in that situation. She encouraged Karina to go to court to get this restraining order, which Karina [41:46] did not appreciate it. [41:49] Suzanne Blake reported for the Daily Tar Heel that Eric actually threatened Faith after this, saying that he'd kill her if Karina didn't get back together with him. To him, Faith was standing in the way of their relationship and using her influence over Karina to poison her against him. And we know like an abuser faced with losing control over their victim could fit with that angry, misogynistic tone of the note, right? Definitely. [42:19] about Eric's behavior right before and right after Faith's murder. And what's interesting about his behavior, I mean, it's sketchy to say the least, especially the ominous things that he wrote on social media the day before Faith was killed. So on the day before, Eric posted on his Twitter asking to be forgiven for something that he was about to do. [42:44] Now, clearly, this is all mentioned in the reports because it was as concerning for police as it is for anyone listening. Additionally, he exhibited other strange behavior that caught their attention, like showing up at the crime scene while police were processing it, which, in fairness, he actually did live at the same complex, just a few buildings down from them. But still, he just like walked up while police were there and actually jumps on camera to tell the media, like, again, how shocked he is about Faith's murder.

[43:14] he gets interviewed and he's like, I have no idea who would want to do this. Okay, but [43:18] If he was living at the same apartment complex, I can kind of understand seeing some ruckus happening, especially at an apartment that you're familiar with. [43:28] walking over there to have a look just to see what was going on. So I can understand that, too. But here's the thing. Eric wound up leaving the scene and going down to the police station for questioning like that very same day. And when he was done, he went back to the crime scene. And they know he went back because he walked right up to the crime scene tape. And they told him he actually had to leave so that Karina could come back. Because remember, she has this restraining order out against him. [43:58] a little bit too interested in the investigation and show some noticeable behavior changes, because that sounds like it to me. Right. And remember, that same profile says that they would likely know her and that they would live close by. Oh, my God. Yeah. As all these documents show, the police's scrutiny on Eric only intensified in the days right after Faith's murder. They got warrants to search his car, his Facebook account, and they even get some to get [44:28] samples, and Eric agreed to let them search his phone without a warrant. And right there on his phone, police found a text from September 6th that matches Eric's tweet. He's basically asking a friend to forgive him for something that he's about to do. And honestly, it doesn't seem to me like he did himself any favors during this time, because three days after Faith died, Eric changed

[44:58] text cryptic message. And here, read this for everyone. [45:03] It says, quote, "Dear Lord, forgive me for all of my sins and the sins I may commit today." [45:09] Protect me from the girls who don't deserve me and the ones who wish me dead. [45:14] End quote. [45:15] I don't even know how to unpack that. So I have to imagine that with all of this, police were probably feeling pretty confident that this could be an open and shut case as soon as they got some physical evidence back. And like, you know, basically, they're piling up this circumstantial stuff against Eric. But the thing we learned from the reports is when police test Eric's DNA against what was found at the crime scene, it's not a match. [45:45] probably part of why Eric didn't get more attention in the press until after these police files came out. Like, the police didn't want to publicly drag this guy through the mud if they knew that his DNA wasn't a match, which, again, they probably knew very early on. [46:00] Yeah. As it turns out, Eric wasn't the only person ruled out by DNA, though. Remember, Brandon was cleared. And also, according to investigation discovery, Faith's ex-boyfriend was also cleared by DNA. And that article I mentioned earlier from the Daily Tar Heel says that hundreds of other samples had turned up no time. [46:21] matches. [46:22] But here is the weird thing about this case. Usually, that's where we would see a lot of suspects just kind of drop off the radar. Like, not a DNA match. You look fishy. You might not be a great guy, but everyone kind of moves on, like looking for the real perp. But after this huge info dump from the police department, the Internet blows up with these rumors, with every theory under the sun.

[46:52] He is not a match. The public is still side-eyeing the heck out of Eric, despite him never being arrested, despite him never being charged, and despite him never being called an official suspect in Faith's murder. [47:06] It's basically just the rumor mill churning, and it starts to die down a little bit. Only really in your face if you're looking for info about Faith's case. [47:17] That is... [47:19] Until some shocking new evidence comes to light in early 2016 that changes things. [47:26] Everything. [47:29] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [47:48] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now, wherever you get your podcasts. [47:59] In February of 2016, police make another unusual decision to release another piece of audio related to the case. Just like with the 911 call, there are snippets of this all over the Internet. But this guy named Tom Gasparoli's Pursuit podcast has the whole clip on his website. So I'm going to link out to that. But here, before I give you any context, just listen and then I'll explain.

[48:26] Okay, am I missing something? I can't understand a word of that. [48:56] Honestly, kind of sounds like a butt dial. Right. OK, so here is the story behind what sounds like just a butt dial. And I got to take you back to the morning that Faith was found murdered. So on that morning, September 7th, 2012, another UNC student named Yuna checked her phone and found that she had a late night voicemail from her friend Faith Hedgepeth. At first, Yuna wasn't too surprised because she knew Faith had this rep for pocket dialing people from time to time. [49:26] My sister's phone does this to me all the time, almost to the point where I don't answer her anymore. And sure enough, when Yuna listens to this message, it was like this three minute garbled mess. And it's like literally what I played for you times three minutes. And there's no like, hey, girl, what's up? I'm calling you about XYZ. There's nothing even at the end where she realizes she's calling someone. It's just garbled noise. So Yuna deleted the voicemail without really thinking too hard about it. [49:54] But as soon as she learns that Faith had been murdered, Yuna managed to get a hold of her cell phone provider and actually get the deleted voicemail back so that she could turn it over to police in case it was important.

[50:06] Wait, so police had this... [50:09] But dial voicemail the entire time. Yeah. And that is where it stayed for four long years out of the public sphere. [50:19] chilling with the rest of the evidence in this case until the police decided to release it in 2016. [50:28] What's the significance of a voicemail if you can't hear anything of it or tell anything about it? Like, do we know what time the call came in? There has to be a reason for releasing this garbled voicemail. [50:39] Million dollar question. That right there is where things around this call start to get really tangled because the answer is we don't have an answer. That's not fair. What do you mean? Like there has to be some sort of timestamp at least, right? So it does have a timestamp. The timestamp that we have is at 123 a.m. on September 7th, 2012. But not everyone agrees that that timestamp is accurate. OK, but... [51:09] Why not trust the timestamp? At that time, Karina and Faith would have still been at Thrill, right? Yeah. So... [51:15] It could totally sound like a butt dial from a nightclub. Well, according to Mark Schultz's reporting in the News and Observer, a forensic audio expert named Arlo West got brought in by True Crime Daily for a special on this case. And he claims that a software glitch from the phone company could have messed with that time frame.

[51:45] have been made. And like, I kind of wonder too, like if Yuna maybe deleting the message and then recovering it could have like, [51:53] like made the timestamp funky. But basically, like the meat of this is that Arlo says that he analyzed the call and he thinks he knows exactly what's being said. And according to him, it paints a completely different picture. He says that he can hear four separate voices in the message, two men and two women, one of whom he thinks is faith. He says that if the call really [52:23] think, and, you know, if it's really at 123, and like you said, it sounds like a butt dial from a club, but he says that there would be more background noises, like glasses clinking, more music playing. Okay, but to me, that doesn't really mean much of anything. If the phone was in his pocket or purse, the sound is going to be muffled and weird. Well, and that's what police think, too. And they also point out that the Thrill was a college bar. So it's the type of place that you're going to find, like, red solo cups, not, like, fancy martini glasses, like, [52:53] You know, a lot of people do hear music in the background. I did some sleuthing on Reddit, and there was one commenter who said that they can hear a certain T-Pain song. And I checked the date on the song, and it actually matches. The song came out in 2011. I feel like you didn't need to check the date. You probably knew. I know all the T-Pain songs, yes. But it totally is possible that the song was T-Pain. It was in the background. It really could be taking place at 1.23 in the morning at the thrill.

[53:23] four people arguing. And according to his transcript, he even thinks that he can pick out the name of a person. So here's the thing. According to his transcript, this is what the first female voice is saying at the beginning of the call. Quote, you want to mess with my boyfriend? [53:41] And then a second voice says... [53:44] Quote, "I said I don't want to, Rosie." [53:47] end quote. Who is Rosie? Well, he poses it may be a nickname for Karina Rosario. [53:55] Okay, and wouldn't be the first time that college students called their friends or people they know by their last names or a version of that. Well, and even more than that, according to the Investigation Discovery episode, Rosie is one of Karina's nicknames. Now, I'm not going to go through every single line of this call because you guys can watch the whole thing for yourself. We'll link to this video on our website. But if Arlo's analysis is right, there's an argument going on. [54:25] first unidentified woman says, quote, I'm going to kick your face. Then there's like a lot of exchange. But then the second woman is saying stuff like, ow, my head, let me go, help me. There's some more ows, some screaming, you know, what he calls verbal abuse from other people, a lot of swearing. And then finally, he says that one of the men says, quote, [54:48] I think she's dead. I can't believe you really did it, Rosie.

[54:53] Then another unidentified woman says, go help Eric. Wait, Eric? Like Eric Decoy Jones, Karina's ex? That's instantly where Arlo's mind goes when he hears that. To him, if the timestamp was wrong and the call really came in later than 1.23, then this voicemail could very well be a recording of Faith fighting for her life. [55:23] of the voices on the call. [55:25] But... [55:26] Karina had that no contact or restraining order against Eric. Would it even make sense for them to be together? Well, I mean, like we've talked about so many times before, you know, we talked about intimate partner violence, something like a breakup or even filing a restraining order like Karina did doesn't necessarily mean the end of a relationship or breaking off all contact with the other person. Like getting out of an abusive relationship, an abusive situation isn't like this clean one and done break, like, you know, like we might want to think. But listen, I want [55:56] clear because it is super easy to see this video with the text and get super caught up in this narrative that has been created for us. But when you hear the call with a transcript overlaid, sometimes you can kind of hear what Arlo says he hears. But even as I'm reading it and listening [56:16] It's not super clear. I mean, you guys heard at the beginning, my mind had to stretch to make it fit. And then listening without it, it's just like this jumbled mess. So I think it's important that we understand our minds don't like chaos. We try to make nonsensical things make sense. And so if you're looking for certain words, you're more likely to find them.

[56:38] There is no concrete proof of who was on this call or what was said or even when the call was placed. All we know for sure is that it came from Faith's phone at some point in the hours before she died. And the police reports did say that they found her phone in her apartment. And that was one of the things they collected as evidence. So, like, I feel confident saying it definitely was with her all night. [57:08] at the scene. And since we know it was male DNA, it wasn't Karina's either. So as bad as this could look, to me, it just leaves more questions than answers. [57:21] And it left everyone else in the public with questions, too. And it gets people talking about this case again, but not really talking about my biggest question, because my biggest question is, even if the call is legit, who left their semen in Faith's house? [57:37] apartment. Because all anyone can seem to talk about are Arlo's accusations that it could be Faith, Karina, Eric, and this mystery person. So a lot of eyes in this time turned right back to Karina and Eric. And this new theory takes hold in the public opinion that perhaps they work together as a pair. And among the people who are deeply suspicious of them is Faith's family. [58:07] or at least one of the voices in the voicemail, is in fact Faith. Her dad, Roland, told the news and observer that he is 100% sure it's his baby girl.

[58:18] Which isn't a big... [58:20] stretch to get to because it did come from her phone. I'm willing to jump to that conclusion with you for sure. Right. But here's what's so weird. The police records talk about like imaging Faith's phone to get information about her texts, but they don't say anything about trying to get information on her outgoing calls, which is like we're like spiraling about when this call came in because the records are funky on Uniside. But like we could have access to it on Faith's side. [58:50] And I wish I knew why. I don't know if they left this out. I don't know if that's something they didn't do. [58:56] Because we still have this huge issue of the timestamp. And here's the thing. Police hold firm with their own findings. They say that the timestamp of 1.23 a.m. is accurate. And from what I read, the Chapel Hill police don't fully disown Arlo's analysis, I guess. But they don't ever put out a public statement saying that they actually agree with it either. They basically say that they're just continuing their own analysis. [59:26] in some way because [59:27] If it's not, why release it? I honestly don't know. I kind of spiraled thinking about this. And I either think that maybe they agree with Arlo to some extent, but can't come right out and say it. Or maybe... [59:41] they really just wanted the public interest in this again. Like maybe it was dying off and this was a piece of evidence they could release because maybe they really believe it has nothing to do with it, but it would at least get people...

[59:52] talking. It's kind of like a juicy piece of evidence that people can latch onto and talk about and keep it in the public eye. Yeah. But despite police holding firm saying that it doesn't really change much for them, the public gets, again, more suspicious of Karina, especially after ABC News reports that she actually didn't lock the apartment door when she left the night that Faith died. Okay, people. Okay. [1:00:16] This is not a crime junkie life rule. This is an everybody life rule. [1:00:21] Lock your doors, please. A hundred percent. And like none of this feels good, but as shady as it all looks, the physical evidence is not matching up. Again, they know it's a male who killed Faith or at least a male that was been there. Not that like a male couldn't have had an accomplice if not. [1:00:39] Someone wanted to theorize that it was Karina and Eric that were somehow involved in Faith's death. Like, I don't care. There had to be another male. And, you know, maybe there are four people. Maybe there's one stranger. The truth is an unlocked door means anybody could have walked into the apartment. Yeah. And I guess I'm just trying to understand that. [1:01:01] the motive... [1:01:03] behind Karina potentially being involved or how this mystery fourth person fits into it. Like the best theory I've heard is that Eric was mad that Faith was trying to pull Karina away from him. So I can see there being something messy between, you know, the ex-boyfriend, ex-girlfriend and her best friend.

[1:01:23] But who is this mystery fourth person, if there even was one? Well, there has to be one, right? I mean, I guess. And again, Karina and Faith were best friends. I just don't see... [1:01:35] It being like something that makes sense that she would help kill her. Eric was mad at Faith, not Karina taking care of Faith. [1:01:42] put them together again. Well, so here is [1:01:46] a little bit of information that police learned later. They learned that Karina and Faith's relationship wasn't perfect. They actually learned this from Yuna, that there was some tension between Faith and Karina, so much so that in the weeks before she died, apparently Faith actually asked Yuna if she could move in with her. So did Karina know that Faith was thinking of moving out? Because to me, that might explain, like we talked about in the call, that Karina kept saying, [1:02:16] and my friend versus our apartment and my roommate? Right. So that's a really good question, but one I don't know the answer to. I mean, I seriously have so many questions about Faith and Karina's relationship right before she died. I want to know what could have gone so wrong between them that Faith felt she needed to go live somewhere else, but also not wrong enough that they were fine hanging out together. You know what I mean? Like, again, they went out that night [1:02:46] to me. So yeah, if they had had this major falling out, why would they go to the club together? Right. But I just don't know. And I have to imagine that police questioned Karina about all of this. And what I've read is that she was pretty cooperative with police. I mean, like she went in for questioning multiple times, but whatever answers she may or may not have given police about their relationship, we don't have any documentation on it. And she's never been named as a suspect or a person of interest or charged with anything related to Faith's murder.

[1:03:15] you [1:03:15] Despite how promising this seemed at first, the voicemail doesn't lead to any arrests or new suspects. And once again, the case, despite all the evidence, looks like it's going cold. [1:03:28] Like, can you even imagine how much of a roller coaster like this would have been, especially because it's still not over? When everything seems to be dipping, this case takes another huge upswing because in September of 2016, ABC News releases some new information never before heard by the public. [1:03:58] mourning that Faith had died. [1:04:00] What kind of noises? Well, she describes them as thumps, three separate noises around 3 a.m. And she said it kind of sounded like furniture getting flipped over or something like really heavy dropping. But ABC News still has more. In addition to releasing this information about the neighbor Joy, they also have a DNA composite sketch of the man that they believe killed Faith. And it goes out on national TV on 2020. [1:04:30] And Brett, I'm going to send you the image right now and you can tell me what you see. [1:04:35] Okay, it's a lot like the DNA composites we've seen before. It basically gives you generalizations as to what this guy might look like based on the DNA profile. Yeah, it's actually from Parabon. Right, our friends.

[1:04:48] So it basically determines that he may have dark to light olive skin. There's a really high likelihood that his eyes are brown or hazel. He has dark hair and probably doesn't have freckles. And they are kind of assigning his potential ancestry to be Latino. [1:05:07] So, yeah, you're totally right. Mark Schultz's article in the News and Observer said that this snapshot basically shows a man who's either Native American or Latino. And whoever this is, they're over 85 percent sure that he has dark or light olive skin and almost 94 percent sure that he's got brown eyes. And what I want to know is if anyone who lived near faith at the time of her death fits this. [1:05:34] this description. But if Chelsea Delaney's allegations about the police not searching Faith's neighbors, her apartments, the woods, we might never actually know the answer to that, because I'm sure the people who lived there back then probably are long gone by now. Especially in a college town. Right. So do we know how long police have had this composite? They're a little bit cagey about that. The Chapel Hill PD won't get any more specific than saying [1:06:04] early 2016, but 2020 is the first time that the public gets any wind of it. [1:06:11] And this show is also the first time that police release a photo of the empty rum bottle that they believe was used as the murder weapon.

[1:06:19] Now, just like police hoped it would, the composite brings in hundreds of tips after the 2020 episode airs. But it doesn't bring in any new suspects or leads. And just like before with the 911 call, with the voicemail, with releasing all of the police records, this case just stalls out. I did try and find out if the Chapel Hill police are still working with Parabon to do genealogy testing. [1:06:49] of justice. And while I wasn't able to get a clear yes or no, they at least have this sample. And we know they are connected with Parabon. So it might be a possibility down the line. As of 2020, though, Faith's murder remains unsolved. And the internet is bursting with theories. [1:07:11] Obviously, no investigation is ever as easy as it seems on TV. But I just can't shake the feeling that there's something here, something in this huge pile of physical evidence that everyone is missing. I keep going back to the apartments and the woods that allegedly didn't get searched after Faith's body was found. And I keep wondering if they hold the key. [1:07:41] a light into the darkness and give Faith's family and her community the answers that they've so desperately longed for. They deserve answers, and she deserves to be seen as more than another murdered Indigenous woman. If you have any information about the murder of Faith Hedgepeth, please call the Chapel Hill Crime Stoppers at 919-919-91900.

[1:08:06] 942-7515. [1:08:10] or visit crimestoppers-chcunc.org. [1:08:16] to see pictures and all of our source material for this case go to our website crimejunkiepodcast.com and be sure to follow us on instagram at crimejunkiepodcast [1:08:39] We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. [1:09:10] you [1:09:11] you [1:09:12] you [1:09:12] *music* [1:09:15] *music* [1:09:18] Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [1:09:25] Okay, Crime Junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now, and I've been listening for years.

[1:09:48] I think you'll love it too. [1:09:49] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.