Verdict at Kouri Richins' trial. Nurse accused of poisoning friend. Plus, AI at the police station.

[00:02] Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features. So you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead, and ready before problems ever start. [00:19] Mazda. More of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product. [00:30] When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track. [00:37] because there is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's vast selection of high-quality motors, sensors, belts and hard-to-find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place. [00:48] so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. [00:51] Call 1-800-GRANGER, click granger.com, or just stop by. [00:55] Grainger. For the ones who get it done. [01:01] - Hey, good morning, good morning. So- - You're listening in to the Dateline Morning Meeting. - There's also the Alabama charges. - Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas. - It sounds like the defense is that sort of dirt on forensics, right? - We got some antifreeze, we got a love triangle, and maybe video interrogation, perhaps. [01:21] Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's March 19th, and we're on the road, bringing you the podcast from Utah, where I'm covering the Corey Richens trial. More on that in a little bit.

[01:33] First, here's what's on our docket this week. In Provo, Utah, a nurse is on trial for allegedly poisoning her best friend with insulin. Her defense team says the case is based on lies. Like Casey telling people she was afraid of Megan. Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says? In Dateline Roundup, the latest on an Illinois killer fighting to clear his name. And the names of his parents, too. [02:03] former Major League Baseball pitcher and convicted killer Dan Serafini. We always joke around that we're like a rebel because he always complains that he has two eyes. Plus, AI at the police station and the courthouse. How is artificial intelligence changing crime fighting? There's a lot of controversy around this. The whole idea is trying to intervene before the crime occurs. All right, let's get to our first story. We are here not too far from the Summit County Courthouse, [02:33] huge update for you in the trial of Corey Richens, the mother of three who authored a children's book about grief only to be accused of murdering her husband. There's a verdict. [02:47] Over the past three weeks, prosecutors painstakingly built their case against Corey Richens by calling over 40 witnesses, presenting dozens of exhibits, phone records, toxicology reports, financial documents, all pointing, they say, towards Corey's involvement in her husband's

[03:03] sudden death. The prosecution alleged that the Utah mom had slipped her husband, Eric, a fatal dose of fentanyl in a cocktail so she could cash in on his life insurance and start her life over with a new man. Then it came time for the defense to present their case, and they took a very different approach. They announced they would not be calling a single witness. Actually, this time the defense intends to rest. A decision so surprising, the judge made sure Corey Richens was okay with it. [03:33] You've consulted with your client about this. Absolutely. Ms. Richens, may I ask you two direct questions? Yes. Do you understand that you have the right to testify at trial? Yes, I do. Are you following your attorney's advice and waiving your right to testify at trial? Yes, I am. [03:54] Closing arguments got underway on Monday, and then the jury was sent off to deliberate. Dateline producer Karen Israel is here with me in the same room in Utah, and she is joining us now to talk about the final chapter in the Corey Richens case. Karen, thanks so much for being here in Utah with me. Thanks for having me. Before we get to the verdict, let's just spend a little bit longer talking about the closing arguments. The prosecution went first. Prosecutor Brad Bloodworth spent a lot of time describing Corey's character. [04:24] and said that she was intensely ambitious. [04:32] or at least the appearance of the perfect life. Yeah, he used that phrase intensely ambitious five times in his closing. It's the phrase that he seemed to want the jury to hold on to, to understand just how driven Corrie was to get what she wanted. And he said she'd do whatever it took.

[04:50] to get it. And at first, her husband Eric seemed to provide exactly what she was looking for. But then the prosecutor said Corey got unhappy in the marriage and she couldn't just walk away. She had too much to lose. So Karen, also in that motive bucket is this prenup that Corey and Eric had. And the prosecutor went into details about that. Their prenuptial agreement meant that if she left him, she would also leave most of his money. [05:17] That's right. Bloodworth said Cori did everything she could to make enough money on her own to be able to leave Eric Richens and took incredible risks trying to do so in her house flipping business. [05:28] And that's when she crossed paths with her handyman turned lover, Josh Grossman. She seemed to want a life with this man. The prosecutor told the jury that she really only saw one path forward. Corey Richens is an intensely ambitious person. She is a risk taker. There was a way forward. [05:51] Eric had to die. [05:53] How did the prosecutor sum up how Corey killed Eric? So the prosecutor said Corey bought illicit street drugs to kill Eric and that Corey gave Eric the drugs she got her hands on in a cocktail, possibly a Moscow mule or a shot or both. We heard early on that 911 call that Corey made the day Eric Richens died. The prosecutor chose to replay that 911 call in closings.

[06:23] Okay, what's the address? Yes, so on the call, you hear Corey giving excuses about why she can't give Eric CPR. [06:42] - Amen. [06:42] I'm going to go through. [06:44] We are in the form. [06:45] The prosecutor actually put up a time clock while playing the 911 call and estimated there was a six-minute delay before Corey actually started doing CPR. And so we go back to character here. The prosecutor wanted the jury to listen to Corey's demeanor and, you know, decide for themselves who this woman really is. [07:15] of a wife becoming a widow, [07:17] The first minute is the sound of a wife [07:20] becoming a black [07:22] Without. OK, then it was the defense's turn to present their closing arguments. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis poked holes in the prosecution's theory that Corey killed her husband to be with Josh Grossman, saying that even Grossman himself admitted on the stand that their future together was a mere fantasy. And Corey never promised she would leave Eric for him. If Corey was as motivated by money as they would have you think, would she really have killed her wealthy husband to run off with the handyman who lived for free in one of her houses? [07:52] call and after Eric's death

[07:54] The defense said that people all grieve differently and she shouldn't be judged based on the worst moment of her life. [08:01] The defense attacked the credibility of the state's star witness, Carmen Lauber. She's really key in this whole trial. She's Corey's former housekeeper who testified that she got the fentanyl for Corey, which the prosecution says was the deadly fentanyl. [08:31] as she was facing serious drug charges... [08:33] They said her testimony was full of inconsistencies. She couldn't remember anything. Not from 2022, not from 2023. She couldn't remember on Friday what she testified to on Thursday. Jury deliberations got underway Monday afternoon and the mood was tense. Yeah, the judge checked in with the jury. They wanted to keep going into the evening. They actually locked up the courthouse and everyone had to stay inside. [09:03] a verdict. Okay, let's take a listen. Count one. Aggravated murder. [09:09] We, the jury, unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richens, is... [09:14] guilty of aggravated murder. [09:16] Richens also faced charges of attempted aggravated murder, fraud, and forgery. She was found guilty of all of those charges. And Karen, I personally felt like as the verdict was being read, you got a sense of how Corey was feeling. To me, it was written all over her face. After hearing guilty for the aggravated murder charge, she tipped her head down, and you could see her trying to regulate her breathing. When will Corey Richens be sentenced?

[09:46] Richens incredibly also faces 26 other felony charges in a separate case, charges all pertaining to alleged financial crimes. And we'll have to wait and see whether prosecutors will pursue that in light of this verdict because she is looking at some very, very serious time behind bars. Karen, thank you for being here with me in Utah. It's great to be here with you. [10:16] and another alleged poisoning. This one involves a nurse and her best friend. [10:23] Insurance is not one-size-fits-all. That's why drivers have trusted progressives' name-your-price tool for years. [10:32] Just tell Progressive what you want to pay. [10:34] and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. [10:38] Visit Progressive.com to find a car insurance rate that works for you. [10:42] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. [10:49] With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. He wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. [11:06] "'What's in your wallet?' [11:08] Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. [11:15] This episode is brought to you by Penn Foster.

[11:19] Sometimes things don't go as planned, especially with high school. [11:24] When you start to feel like you're falling behind, [11:26] Having another option can make a real difference. [11:30] Penn Foster High School is an accredited online diploma program [11:35] built for flexibility. [11:37] So whether you're hoping to go back and finish what you started, [11:40] Or you're the parent of a teen who needs a different approach to education. [11:44] There is a way forward. [11:46] With self-paced courses, you have the freedom to learn on your own schedule. [11:51] That way you can fit school around everything else going on in your life and stop falling behind. [11:57] Don't just get back on track. Start moving forward with Penn Foster. [12:02] Visit penfoster.edu slash dateline to learn more. [12:11] For our next story, we're heading to Provo, Utah, where it's week two in the trial of nurse Megan Sundwall for the murder of her best friend, Casey Terry. At the time of 38-year-old Casey's death in August of 2024, her friends and family believed she was terminally ill with cancer. But an autopsy revealed something astonishing. [12:32] Casey didn't even have cancer. She died from an insulin overdose. After a seven-month investigation, police arrested Casey's friend, Megan, for her murder. Tonight, a Utah nurse is behind bars accused of carrying out a years-long murder plot. Driven by greed for life insurance money, the woman allegedly killed her old roommate. Megan Sundwall says she's innocent and has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and obstruction of justice.

[13:02] urging the jury not to jump to conclusions. They say Casey was lying to everyone about having cancer, and that wasn't the only thing she lied about. As a warning for our listeners, this segment includes discussion of suicide. Dateline producer Marissa Meyer, who has been covering the case, is here to get us up to speed. Thanks for joining us, Marissa. Thank you for having me, Andrea. So before we get into the details of the alleged crime, Marissa, tell us about Megan and Casey. Who were they... [13:30] How did they know each other? And you say they were best friends, right? Or it appeared to be. Yeah, very, very close. Prosecutors say Casey and Megan met working at a center for adults with intellectual disabilities, and they became close friends really quickly. And at one point, Casey even lived with Megan and her husband. So they were very, very close. At some point in their friendship, Casey started telling people she had cancer. How did Megan react? [14:01] So prosecutors said the friends spoke often about Casey's cancer and how she was in pain and she was worried about dying. The state showed the jury text messages in which Casey expressed suicidal ideations to Megan, saying that she wanted to end her own pain. And they alleged that Megan seemed to be encouraging Casey to follow through with those ideations. [14:31] left for you here. And then another one where she told her the cats

[14:35] You have to let go if it is past. [14:38] Right. Prosecutors say that the way Megan was talking to her was scaring Casey. And they called Casey's sister, Kylie, to the stand. She told the jury that Casey got so scared of Megan that she moved out of her house. I moved, me and my husband moved her out. [14:57] around 2020 [15:00] Why did you and your husband move her out? Because Casey no longer felt safe living there. [15:06] How did she express that to you? [15:08] Um... [15:10] multiple phone calls that she felt like Megan was trying to poison her. [15:17] She just didn't feel comfortable being in that house anymore. [15:22] And Kylie testified that as far as she knew, Casey wasn't suicidal at all. What did you perceive Casey's attitude about life to be? [15:30] She was happy. She was a lot more upbeat than I had seen her in a long time. [15:36] So you feel she would have confided in you if suicide intention was an issue? Yes. [15:43] Carly [15:44] said she believed right from the start that Megan was involved in Casey's death. Tell us how life insurance fits into all of this. [15:53] Yeah, so this is a central part of the case and what prosecutors say is the motive in the case. The jury learned that Casey told Megan that she had named Megan as the beneficiary of her life insurance policy.

[16:15] dollars that Megan was going to be a beneficiary of. [16:20] And prosecutors noted that Megan was in financial trouble at that point. She'd lost her job, she'd totaled her car, and her husband's child support payments from a previous marriage had gone way up. So, Marissa, with all of what we've just talked about, what do prosecutors say happened on August 12th, 2024? So they say that Megan entered Casey's home that day with a plan. [16:50] plan was that she would go to her friends, Lizzie Carey's house. [16:54] She would inject her with insulin. [16:56] and monitor conflicting posts. [16:59] until Jason died. [17:01] And prosecutors say Megan did not call 911 to get her help. Casey's uncle eventually did. And then Casey died three days later in the hospital. And there's a big twist in all this. We said in the intro, Casey didn't even have cancer. Yeah. So... [17:21] Had she been lying to everyone then, including Megan? Yes. So, Casey's lies have formed the basis of the defense's argument. The defense is saying that Casey lied a lot. They say that she was lying about cancer. She was lying about a ton of other things. And they say that, you know, maybe she was doing all this to try to get attention from people. Wow. Yeah.

[17:51] which is always dicey. Yes, it's always a gamble. But I think for the defense, they feel it's really important here because it raises doubts for the jury about things the prosecutors said, which could be very damning about Megan's character. Like Casey telling people she was afraid of Megan or being worried that Megan might kill her. Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says? When it came down to those text messages [18:21] Casey's desire for a quote-unquote release from her illness, wanting to die by suicide. What did the defense have to say about that? Well, they're saying that maybe Megan believed Casey and was trying to support her friend. So does the defense dispute that Megan was with Casey on the night of August 12th? So they do not. And it's one of those things where they can't really dispute it because there are witnesses who place Megan there. But they say Megan was aware of Casey's alleged plan to die [18:51] suicide via this insulin overdose, and that she went to Casey's house to support her emotionally, just emotionally, not to administer any doses of insulin. So are they saying then that Casey injected the insulin into herself? [19:07] Exactly. That's what this whole case boils down to. The question of who gave Casey that fatal dose of insulin? Was it Casey herself or was it Megan? [19:18] Okay, so there's yet another twist in this story, Marissa, that has to do with this insurance policy.

[19:24] I know, I know. This is twist number four, five, or six. I think there's more at this point, yeah. Yeah. Both sides also agree that this $1.5 million life insurance policy Casey told Megan was in her name, it never existed. [19:43] So Megan didn't actually stand to receive any money after Casey's death. What can we expect next in the courtroom? So the prosecution is still calling witnesses, and we'll continue to watch the testimony before the defense begins their case. [19:59] Before we go, we'd like to share some information. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org for more resources. Thank you for bringing us this very complicated story, Marissa, and breaking it down. Thank you, Andrea. [20:29] of Samantha Scott, the ex-lover of former baseball pitcher and convicted killer Dan Serafini. Plus, more police departments are using AI to fight crime, even crimes that haven't happened yet. [20:45] Bye. [20:46] Bye. [20:47] you [20:47] you [20:48] Relax. Apple Pay is secure by design. When you pay with a physical debit or credit card, you're handing your card number over. With Apple Pay, your card number is never shared with the merchant. Apple Pay uses a device-specific number and unique transaction code to help process your payment instead of your actual card number. Plus, Apple Pay doesn't keep transaction information that can be tied back to you or sell your data to third parties for marketing or advertising purposes. Shop with confidence when you check out with Apple Pay. Terms apply.

[21:19] With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. He wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums, he'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. [21:37] "'What's in your wallet?' [21:38] Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. [21:47] More people, more devices, more AI. [21:53] The way we live today takes a lot of energy. Wind and solar are powerful, but not always available. That's where natural gas comes in, with reliable energy whenever it's needed. Companies like Energy Transfer work behind the scenes, safely transporting these resources to facilities across the country through a network of underground pipelines. [22:13] Learn more at ItTakesEnergy.com. [22:23] Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Veronica Mazzica. Hey, Veronica. Welcome. [22:29] Hey, Andrea. Okay, so Veronica, for our first story, we're heading to a California courtroom and the sentencing of a key player in a case we have been following very closely. This is the 2021 shooting of Gary Spore and his wife, Wendy Wood, by their son-in-law, former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. He was married to the couple's daughter, Erin.

[22:50] Gary was killed at the scene. Wendy survived the shooting but died by suicide the next year. My mom's blood is on Samantha Scott's hands. That is the voice of Gary and Wendy's other daughter, Adrienne, talking about Samantha Scott, Serafini's nanny and lover. Veronica, remind us how Samantha Scott fits into this case. Yes, so a jury convicted Dan Serafini of first-degree murder and attempted murder in July, and he is now serving life without parole. [23:20] testified against Serafini at his trial. She admitted that they were lovers and that she dropped him off in Tahoe the day of the shooting. So, Veronica, interesting timing here. Samantha Scott's initial interview with detectives was just released, so we can hear for ourselves what she told them in those early days. Samantha says she thought Serafini was going to Tahoe to buy drugs, not to kill his in-laws. That's correct. [23:50] They say that they don't believe her, but she sticks to her guns. And that's actually consistent with what she said ever since. She says she had no idea what Serafini was planning. In that same interview, Samantha Scott also downplayed her relationship with Serafini at the beginning of all of this, saying it was more of a flirtatious friendship than an affair. Are you and Danny together or is it a sexual thing or just friends? So we're friends.

[24:20] I'm very close with Erin and I'm very close with Dan. [24:24] There's a recent flirtation going on, which I'm sure you'll see in my phone. [24:29] With Dan? Okay, not Aaron? No, not with Aaron. We always joke around that [24:36] We're like a frepl because he always complains that he has two wives. Eventually, Samantha agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and told them she'd been hiding something that Serafini had actually confessed to her after the shootings. She pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact, which brings us back to her sentencing this week. What, Veronica, did the judge ultimately decide? [24:59] Samantha Scott was sentenced to two years of probation with no additional jail time. And Samantha addressed the court as well? Yes. She apologized and took full responsibility for lying to investigators. My heart goes out to the victims and their family. I cannot undo what happened, but I truly wish that I had acted differently when I had the chance. [25:19] The judge said he was troubled by her conduct but found her testimony credible. She is also prohibited from having any contact with Serafini. And he is filing an appeal, so we will see where that goes. For our next story, we're heading to Illinois where there's been a development in a case that's nearly 30 years old. In 1996, a boater on Lake Shelbyville found a bag containing the head of an aspiring model. [25:43] Karen Hearn Slover. A few years later, Karen's ex-husband Michael Slover Jr. and his parents were convicted in connection with her murder. Now, new DNA analysis could change everything. Veronica, give us a quick recap of this case. Karen went missing in late September 1996. The car she was last seen driving was found abandoned on the highway, but there was no sign of Karen. A few days later, her remains were found. Then in 2002, Michael Slover Jr. and his

[26:13] of murder, prosecutors told the jury that concrete debris found in Karen's abandoned car actually matched concrete debris found in the parking lot of the Slovers family business. And they said that investigators had found a button at the family business that matched the buttons on the shirt Karen had been wearing when she disappeared. Michael and his parents have always maintained their innocence, and the Illinois Innocence Project took on their case a few years ago. [26:39] Yes. In 2024, they filed a motion asking for the conviction to be thrown out, arguing that the prosecution's case had been built on junk science, things like comparing the concrete debris and buttons. But the really big thing in that motion was that they said there was, quote, newly discovered DNA evidence in the case. What DNA evidence are they referring to? [27:09] used to seal the bags containing Karen's remains. They said none of the DNA belonged to the Slovers. They petitioned a judge to order the Illinois State Police to submit the DNA profiles to both state and national law enforcement databases, including CODIS. They said that this could actually lead them to the real killers. So what did the judge decide? The judge recently ordered that the police start submitting the profiles for analysis. And at a court hearing last week, [27:40] OK, so where do they go from here, the police? The Illinois State Police will continue that analysis, but prosecutors are pushing back against the defense team's motion to overturn the convictions. They say that the jury made the right decision at trial and the investigation was solid. OK, so meantime, Michael Slover Jr. is out of prison? Yes, he got out on parole in 2024. Both of his parents died in prison.

[28:09] reaction to this new development. It's been a really long wait for him, and he's, I think, eager to eventually have his day in court. It's progress, and he's happy about that. Very interesting, Veronica. Thank you so much for bringing us these stories. Of course. Thank you. [28:27] For our final story this week, we're diving into a topic that's been getting a lot of attention lately, AI or artificial intelligence. AI is something that is increasingly in our lives, [28:39] the search engines on our computers and phones, to our kids using it for their homework. But what if we told you that AI is also being used to fight crime, generating police reports, tracking down fugitives, even predicting future crimes? Here to fill us in on this new frontier in law enforcement is Professor Daniel Linna, Senior Lecturer and Director of Law and Technology Initiatives at Northwestern University. Thanks for joining me, Dan. Yeah, glad to be here. [29:09] the movie with Tom Cruise about, you know, it came out a long time ago, but it was really about predicting future murders. We are arresting individuals who have broken the law. But they will. To pre-concredits the future, and they're never wrong. [29:22] Right, right, right. Well, yeah, a lot of people bring that up. And how are they actually making these predictions? Is there any validity to that? And that's still kind of a relevant... [29:31] question they have here when we talk about AI, it's really important to understand what kind of tools are being used, what's the data being used, how's it being used for these different things? Let's just start with the basics of what we mean when we say AI, artificial intelligence. What exactly is it? There's a wide range of things you might think about. These generative AI tools that produce text, produce images, and you said writing police reports, right? Those are the kind of tools

[30:01] perhaps, and help create a police report, or face recognition tools, which have been around for a little bit longer, different type of technology. Obviously, one of the things we love is how quickly these sites like ChatGPT can spit everything out that you're looking for. And there's some AI applications that could really, I feel like, cut down on time for law enforcement when they're searching, you know, for a suspect. You know, we've talked about facial recognition, [30:31] matches, identifying weapons on security cameras. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that speed can be really important, right? If you can identify that someone has pulled out a weapon in a video camera, right, and draw people's attention to that right away versus expecting that someone was looking at that video camera at the time, right, that can make a huge difference. Another way police departments have started to use AI is by using software to analyze crime data and look for patterns that [31:01] future crimes, which is what... [31:03] we were talking about earlier with minority report. Yeah, and this is something that's been going on for a while, different versions of this, and it's quite controversial, but there's a lot of different type of data that is gathered to make these predictions. There can be place-based predictions. Are there particular areas where you think there may be crime? Or it can be person-based prediction. Some of the person-based prediction used properly could be helpful in the sense that

[31:33] can help change the pathway this person is on so they're not involved in a violent crime or something like that. The New York State Parole Board uses an AI tool called Compass to predict the likelihood of an individual re-offending when deciding on that individual's parole. Is this [31:53] a good idea to be having a computer help deciding something like this when there's so many factors that go into a human being and what they've done, what they may do, what's their background, what's their future. [32:08] Well, to give a lawyerly answer, I'd say it depends, right? And it really depends on the kind of tool that's being used. And we sometimes forget in these discussions that humans have biases as well. So having data to help assist judges in making decisions, there's risks with that. And I think a big problem with Compass, for example, is transparency and not having access to what is the algorithm? How are they computing this? And at the same time, there have been some studies that suggest that this information being provided to judges has actually resulted [32:38] better decisions where people were released. They did not re-offend, right? Judges make [32:42] decisions that aren't the best or biased sometimes as well, can data counteract that in different ways so we get better outcomes. And I think that this highlights something that we're all going to have to get savvier about understanding the ways in which these AI tools work and learning more about them. And where we see problems is over-align some of the technology, the areas where outputs from an AI system is treated as like, this is the way the world is, this is the correct result.

[33:12] Last year, according to Gulf Coast News, a man in Lee County, Florida, was wrongfully arrested for luring or enticing a child. AI facial recognition software identified him as the person of interest on camera leaving a restaurant. Turned out that the man who was ID'd [33:28] was 300 miles away at the time and had never been to that town. Yeah, we've had a few incidents like this, unfortunately. You know, the police need to understand that the computer can get it wrong. This is just one input into conducting good police work and investigations. Where do you think we're going with this as far as if we had this conversation in even, you know, two years, three years? Like, it's so rapidly evolving. Do you think we'll see someday robots at crime scenes? Yeah, for sure. [33:58] your notion of a robot is, right? But yeah, I think that we're going to try to bring... [34:04] tools like that into more and more of our daily interactions. Dan, thank you so much for joining us. It's a fascinating conversation, and it just makes you wonder what the future is going to hold. Thank you. [34:18] That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. But remember to check out my friend Josh's brand new original podcast series, Trace of Suspicion. It's got a lot of twists, and I think you're going to like it. It's about the aftermath of a Marine's unexpected death. [34:35] Investigators suspected his widow had something to do with it, setting off a criminal case that took a stunning turn. I really want to let...

[34:43] everyone know that this really can happen to them. Innocent people go to prison for life and that's a scary thing. [34:51] The first four episodes are available now for free wherever you get your podcasts. And if you subscribe to Dateline Premium, you can binge the whole series ad-free. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, we've got more Josh for you. You can watch his episode about the murder of a beloved tech mogul that stunned a city and sent investigators into a world of glamour, parties, and rage. That is the most far-out story I think I've ever heard in my life. [35:19] I think that there is something deeply disturbing about this person. [35:24] Watch Under the Bay Bridge, airing this Friday at 9, 8 central on NBC, or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. [35:31] Thanks for listening. [36:01] Bye. [36:08] Most of us have given up on something before. Like when you bought that exercise bike, that's now a laundry rack. Or when you tried doing your own hair, but then begged your stylist for an appointment. Some things in life are just easy to quit. But quitting highly addictive tobacco isn't. It takes real support.

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