WANTED: Answers from a Deputy

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. Today I have a super exciting story for you guys. I have been following this for a long time. It's one of the ones that like keeps me up at night. But if after the episode you want a little bit more, we're actually releasing some extra bonus content on Patreon. This Monday was my last Monday doing the radio show I do in Indianapolis. And so I decided to take all of the stories that I've been doing on that radio show [01:00] on Patreon, in addition to the full episodes and mini episodes that everyone is already getting, I am now going to start re-releasing episodes Crime Junkie style. I'm super excited because I get to weigh in on them. Yeah, and there are stories that like a lot of people haven't heard. I know our listeners in Indianapolis have been listening to my radio show for the last year, but this time everyone all over the world can listen now and in our format. I'm super excited. Again, you can go to patreon.com slash crimejunkie for that extra episode today.

[01:30] a clip of the bonus episode at the end of this one. So stay tuned. [01:34] *music* [02:04] For today's story, I am taking you to Naples, Florida in January of 2004. A 27-year-old man named Terrence Williams had recently moved to Florida following his mother there. He went there to find work because he actually had four kids with four different women back in Tennessee, and making child support was becoming increasingly difficult for him. So he goes down to Florida and gets a job in construction. [02:34] his job in construction, Terrence actually ends up getting a job at Pizza Hut as well, just to put some extra cash in his pocket. Now, Terrence had recently lost his driver's license back in Tennessee because of a DUI. So he relied on his mother to take him to and from work each day. Sometimes he would get rides from his roommates or pick up rides, but it was mostly his mom transporting him everywhere. Okay. [02:57] He would be getting his license back soon, though. If all went well and he didn't have any violations, he would be getting it back in June. So in December of 2003, just before this story starts, Terrence actually decided to buy an old Cadillac. And from what I can tell, he wasn't using it a ton. He was still getting rides from his mom all through January, and the car would mostly just sit there waiting for him, waiting for the time when he could actually drive it legally and register it.

[03:27] Sunday, January 11th, 2004. Terrence had been getting along with his co-workers at Pizza Hut pretty well, and he was getting off of work when one of them invites Terrence to a party that they were having. Terrence's mom picks him up from work that day and takes him back to his house. He actually wanted to go home first because he wanted to change out of his uniform and into something normal before going to the party. But this left him without a ride to the party. He tries to talk [03:57] to the party with him so that he could ride with him, but Jason just isn't feeling it. And so he wants to go just chill at home that night. So Terrence does something really dumb. Instead of just getting a cab, he decides that he's going to take out his new Cadillac. Not long after he leaves, Jason actually gets a call from Terrence and he's calling from a pay phone and he's like, dude, there are cops everywhere. I just need to pretend like I'm talking to you for a little bit and kind [04:27] I don't give them any reason to stop me. So the two of them kind of chat on the phone for a bit. And finally, Terrence is like, okay, it's all clear. I'm going to talk to you later. Jason doesn't realize this at the time, but this is the last time he would talk to Terrence. And he has no reason to think that Terrence would try and call him later. So when he goes to bed that night, he leaves his cell phone in the living room. Now, when Jason wakes up the next morning, Terrence isn't home. And this isn't super weird right away though, because Terrence would go [04:57] away for days at a time sometimes. And he would stay with other people, stay with friends, stay with his mom. It was just part of their normal routine not to see one another sometimes. But

[05:09] is that Jason had some missed calls from an unknown number on his cell phone around 4 a.m. When he calls this number back, it's actually one of Terrence's co-workers from Pizza Hut, and she didn't know why Terrence would have been calling him or using her phone, and she said that he actually left the party sometime between 5 and 6 in the morning on the 12th. Jason is thinking that maybe he was calling for a ride, but clearly Terrence ended up leaving on his own, so he doesn't think too hard on it. [05:39] Terrence still isn't back on Tuesday. He reaches out to Terrence's mom by email just to see if maybe she had seen or spoken to him because something is just making him feel off about this whole situation. When he hears back from her, she hadn't talked to him at all. And to her, this is a sign that something is really wrong. They normally talk every single day. So for her to have gone a day or two with no contact and then to be contacted by his roommate to say that he hasn't come home, [06:09] I feel like this is a recurring theme in the last few episodes we've done. [06:22] Yes. So for the next day, Jason and Terrence's mom start calling around friends, hospitals, jails, literally anywhere Terrence might be. And they call into his work and find out that he's missed work all three days, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Once his mom learns this, she goes to a branch of the Collier County Sheriff's office to report him missing.

[06:52] her a response that is all too familiar. And they're basically like, listen, he's a grown adult. He doesn't have to check in with you. He doesn't have to talk to you every day. So if you haven't seen him in a month... [07:04] Then come back and let's talk. A month? A month. That's so long. Yeah, but his mom is not having this. So she doesn't blow up or she doesn't make a scene. What she does is she puts an army on it. She calls all of her family back in Tennessee and starts having them call around to all of the same hospitals, all of the same jails, all of the same sheriff's offices and dispatchers. And this is proof of what we said in our If I Go Missing episode. [07:34] gets the grease because the sheriff's office said that because of the sheer volume of calls that they were getting, they couldn't ignore it. Exactly. They said, we decided to take this seriously. And I think that's a mistake that a lot of people make. They think that, you know, we have our whole family together. So we're going to send one person to the police office. And surely they know that there's a whole family behind them worried, but they don't. If it's just one person, it's not a big deal. If you make a stink, they will take notice. I love that. So the sheriff's [08:04] mother's house to take a statement. Now, [08:07] While this is going on, she still has family calling around asking questions, and one of Terrence's aunts finds a massive bleed. She finds out that Terrence's car had been towed from a cemetery on the 12th, the day that he was last seen. I'm sorry, what? Yes, apparently it was obstructing traffic and seemed to have been abandoned, so a deputy ordered a tow. When they go check out the car, sure enough, it's his.

[08:37] side, a carton of his brand of cigarettes were inside, it's just like he vanished into thin air. They find out that the car was towed, in fact, on the 12th around noon, and this was the same day, again, that he was last seen leaving that party around five or six in the morning. Now, even though his car was towed, from the looks of it, it seemed like the car had been completely abandoned because [09:07] expected to see if there was a person in the car and especially if that person was driving an unregistered car without a driver's license. So the family decided to go to the cemetery and actually talk to the people working there to see if they remember seeing anything. And they do. According to their version, Terrence was with the car. They said that a deputy had his emergency [09:37] to the parking lot. From what it looked like where they were kind of far away, it seemed like the deputy had asked this guy for some kind of ID and then ended up putting this guy in the back of his car. Now the deputy then actually came up to the people working and asked if he could leave the car here for a bit and then he would come back or have it towed. And they said, yeah, that's fine. And he was back somewhere within 15 minutes to one hour where he gets the car, [10:05] moves it from a parking spot to the side of the road where it obstructed traffic, and then he tosses the keys outside of the car and drives away. So now the family has a witness saying that Terrence was in the back of this deputy's car, so they want to talk to that deputy to find out what interaction he had with Terrence and where he took him. Deputy Steve Calkins is the one who took this report, who called for the tow, and so it's actually his day off, like once this all comes to a head.

[10:35] dispatcher ends up calling him and the whole interaction just like isn't awesome so i have a transcript of part of the call which we can read for you i hate to bother you at home on your day off but this woman here has been bothering us all day you towed a car from vanderbilt and a hundred do you remember it uh no do you remember she said it was near a cemetery cemetery um [11:01] At this point, Calkins assures the dispatcher that there was no one with the vehicle. [11:06] Well, somebody at the cemetery is telling the mother that you picked up the driver and he's been missing since Monday. Oh, for Pete's sake. [11:13] Now, when he says he has no idea what they're talking about, the dispatcher just takes his word for it and tells the family what he said. He had no memory of the tow or interacting with someone just four days earlier. The sheriff's office isn't ready to drop this complaint quite yet, though. On Monday, January 19th, a week after Terrence was seen and his car was towed, investigators make contact with Deputy Steve Calkins again. And this time, his memory seems to have improved. [11:43] is that on that afternoon, he actually saw Terrence's car was having problems. So he pulled him over to see what was going on. Both cars pulled into the cemetery lot and Terrence begged him for a ride and said that he was going to be late to work. And at first, Steve says that he tells him like, no, you just need to call a cab. But then he says that he has second thoughts about it. And he says this guy seemed so nice and he was so polite. He's just trying to get to work.

[12:13] Circle K where he worked. Um, Circle K, he didn't work there. I thought he worked at Pizza Hut. Right. So stay with me here. He says that he drops off Terrence because he's in a hurry and Terrence told him that his registration papers for the car were in the glove box. Well, he goes back to check and he says that the papers weren't in there at all. So he starts to feel frustrated, like this kid has lied to him. So he calls the Circle K and they say that no one by that name works there, [12:43] So now he's even more upset. He's like, this kid has lied to me. So this is when Deputy Calkin says he moves the car to the street, and he says he doesn't do it to make it look abandoned. He says that he did it so that way when he called to have it towed, the towing company would have better access to it. Now Terrence's mom doesn't buy this story for a second. She says, first of all, his car was working just fine. She was even the one to go pick it up from the tow yard, [13:13] was functioning perfectly and no one had worked on it so the story isn't adding up what kind of problems was it having and that all of a sudden is like remedied by itself she said that terrence was not friendly with law enforcement he had that dui he had a couple other run-ins with the law back in tennessee and she said there is no way that he would have asked a deputy who pulled him over for a ride instead of just calling her now something that i can't quite shake either that i

[13:43] boards or documentaries on this is I find it super strange that Deputy Steve Calkins had Terrence's keys at all. [13:52] Like that to me doesn't fit in with the deputy story. He says, okay, the car was breaking down. So I go take this kid to what I thought was his work and he gets out. But in what world, like if that actually happened, if my car is broken down, I get a ride from a cop somewhere. [14:07] Like, I would take my keys with me because I'm going to go figure out, like, have someone give me a ride, figure out how to fix my car. Why would he be leaving the keys with the deputy? Yeah, it makes zero sense. Right. So, again, nothing really to solve there, but just one of those points that I haven't seen anyone make but, like, has been itching my brain. So investigators doing their jobs decide to pull the security footage from the Circle K. You say you dropped him off. Well, then we should be able to see him there. [14:38] There's no Deputy Calkins anywhere on the footage from that day. About the same time, the family decides to file a complaint against Deputy Calkins. They think that he's lying and that he didn't follow proper protocol, so internal affairs is actually brought in. Mind you, once the sheriff's office had to start looking at one of their own, they actually had already brought in the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the FBI to oversee the investigation

[15:07] Like super smart on their part. Yeah, that's... [15:10] Very, very smart. Yes. But now they also have to bring in Eternal Affairs once this complaint has been filed. And once Eternal Affairs takes a look at this complaint, they are extremely unnerved because they had just closed an eerily similar complaint against the exact same deputy. [15:31] You know the saying, knowledge is power? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity, and no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed to help you reach your goals. [16:01] From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you with everything from applying and financial aid to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at snhu.edu slash crimejunkie. That's snhu.edu slash crimejunkie. [16:20] . [16:23] When summer heat ramps up, did you know that patio surfaces can hit 150 degrees? That's hot enough to make your backyard feel like a punishment. If you have bare windows, the indoor temps can even go up by 20 degrees. But with Blinds.com, you can beat the heat with custom solar shades for your den and patio. Whether you're going DIY or leaving it to the pros, Blinds.com keeps you in control. Choose the level of support that works best for you, with flexibility every step of the way, even picking the right style. They offer free consultation with their award-winning design experts.

[16:52] personal favorite part is how there are no pushy salespeople, no awkward at-home visits, just real advice, instant quotes, and absolutely zero pressure. Samples ship fast and free and everything's backed by Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee. Because at Blinds.com, the only thing they treat better than Windows is you. Right now, our listeners get an exclusive $50 off when you spend $500 or more. Go to Blinds.com and use code CrimeJunkie at checkout for $50 off. Limited time offer, [17:22] See Blinds.com for details. [17:25] You see, back in October, just three months before Terrence disappeared, another man had gone missing. A 23-year-old man named Felipe Santos was living outside of Naples, Florida, and would drive into the city each day to work a job in construction. Now, the problem with this was that Felipe was an illegal immigrant, so he was unable to get a driver's license or be insured. [17:55] Yeah. [18:09] And in that patrol car was Deputy Steve Calkins. And according to the other driver, Felipe was put into the back of Deputy Calkins' car. And to this day, Felipe has not been seen again. Now, when the family heard that Felipe was put in the car, they fully expected him to be arrested and perhaps even subject to deportation. So right when they find out about this, they go to the local jail. But Felipe isn't there.

[18:39] and it's two weeks before they get a copy of the incident report, which has a narrative from Steve Calkins that says everyone at the site was amicable, that he did put Felipe in the back of his car, but Felipe was so polite that he ended up dropping him off at a Circle K so he could get a ride home. Oh my God. Sound familiar? Yeah. [19:01] He did say, however, that he issued Felipe three citations that he would need to pay on and show up in court for. Now, when they talked to the other driver to verify Culkin's story, she says yes, he did get in the back of his car, but she said that it wasn't all amicable. In fact, it was Deputy Steve Culkin's who seemed to be super upset and worked up over the whole accident. [19:31] like this with people who had no driver's license and no insurance. [19:34] So Felipe's family filed both a missing person report and a complaint against Deputy Calkins. They said, listen, he should have been arrested. And if he would have been arrested, we would know where he was at right now. Now, mind you, Felipe was illegal, but he was not on police's radar at that point. When Calkins issued him that citation and then he didn't appear in court because he was missing, that put him on law enforcement's radar. And now he had a warrant out for his arrest. [20:04] this and being like, well, of course he's not going to come back. See, he's just running from a law. He has an arrest warrant out. But like, it doesn't make sense. It's kind of like a chicken or an egg thing. Like he disappeared.

[20:15] before he got that citation, and they got the citation because he probably was with somebody who made him disappear, and he would have gone to court had he been here, but he is not here. You know what I mean? But he had disappeared before the citation, which would call him court. Yeah. Like, no, it's totally confusing. Yeah, so there was some people being like, well, he has a reason not to show up, and everyone's like, no, we're pretty sure he wasn't showing up before then, and he didn't even know this was a thing. [20:40] Internal Affairs gets involved at this point for the first time in Deputy Calkins' career. And after two months of investigating, they find that Deputy Calkins should be exonerated from any wrongdoing. He was a deputy with 17 years of unblemished service. [20:56] And sure, he didn't arrest the guy, but maybe he was just trying to be nice and give him another chance. And technically, he did nothing wrong that day. And he didn't do anything that was against their professional code. Now, Felipe's family gets a letter saying that Deputy Calkins has been cleared. And it is just 72 hours after they get that letter that Terrence went missing after his encounter with Calkins. Oh, my God. [21:26] when almost the exact same thing happened with another man in a similar situation. Internal Affairs processes Terrence's car and they said that they recovered some quote trace evidence, but they won't release what that was to the public. And really, if it's that small, I'm not sure it helps a ton because even Calkins eventually admitted to having moved his car into the road. So I'm

[21:52] Like, I would expect some of his DNA to show up there, right? As you know, my greatest fear is that my ridiculous amount of hair shedding... [22:00] will get me in trouble. Just show up at a crime scene. So I 100% support the idea that just by sitting in a car, trace evidence gets transferred. Yeah, and so again, saying that he was in the car. Now, if the evidence showed up somewhere else, like in the trunk or in the back seat, that doesn't quite fit with his story. So I'm wondering if it's like that, and that's worth noting. But again, they did not release what it was. At this point, they bring Calkins in for a taped interview, [22:30] So they process his car too, and his car was immaculate. Now, they still don't have enough evidence to fire Culkins or even accuse him of foul play, so they keep running down leads and they keep watching him. They actually put a GPS tracker on his car, thinking that maybe if he did do something to these men, he would go back to where he took them. From the GPS records, they identify 12 areas where they think, [22:59] searches should be done. And they do aerial searches, use cadaver dogs, but none of the sites reveal any new clues that might help find Felipe or Terrence. So 12 locations seems like kind of a lot. I wonder if someone in law enforcement maybe have tipped him off. I mean, like you said, it was a small department. If people were looking into him, what are the odds that someone let him know about it? Yeah, I actually had the exact same

[23:29] identified 12 places that they thought were maybe remote or like off his normal route seemed like a lot to me as well and again this guy had been in law enforcement for 17 years had an unblemished record like you make friends and so I can easily see now granted normally like deputies and internal affairs like internal affairs aren't friends with people but I could see somebody like getting a whiff of this and being like hey heads up I think maybe you should watch your back I think [23:59] And he's just taking them on a wild goose chase. Now, again, total speculation, but it was something that stuck out to me too, because it was shocking that they found 12 places that they should go look, but they didn't find anything in these 12 places. So while they're tracking his movements, they're also looking into his story. Now remember, his story is that their interaction was super brief. And he actually ended up saying in his first interview that he had only gotten Terrence's first name. [24:29] of the recordings from dispatch that day and they find another call from deputy caulkins that contradicts everything that he told them oh my god yeah somebody chills you guys and this call is super gross like you can tell caulkins is trying to mock african-american people but he's doing just an awful voice and he's like oh i got this homey cadillac off the side of the road blocking

[24:59] Basically saying he calls in whatever code it is to say that it's totally abandoned. And he's like, you know, this person's going to come back looking for it and it's going to be gone. So not only is he being a super tool and grossly offensive, but he's lying again. In this call, he says that he just found the car obstructing traffic and that the car is abandoned. [25:18] which implies he hasn't seen or interacted with the driver at all. Then just 20 minutes later, he calls back into dispatch again, requesting that dispatch do a background check on a man named Terrence Williams. [25:33] Now, again, up to this point, he said he never knew Terrence's last name. So Terrence had to have told him, which means he had more of an interaction with Terrence than he's been telling people. Can I pause for a second? What's the likelihood that he ran the plates and found the registration for Terrence? He didn't because that was the whole thing. The car was unregistered. Terrence, when he bought it, didn't have a driver's license and was unable to actually register the car. [26:03] car to Terrence. Terrence didn't have ID. The car wasn't registered to Terrence. That's it. Oh my God. Yes. So it's 23 minutes after this call that he ends up making the call for the tow. [26:16] So what did he do with Terrence in those 23 minutes? Because we know he didn't take him to the Circle K. [26:23] Rosetta Stone, who have been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years, just launched Rosetta Stone Sapphire, a new app that combines its proven immersion method with the latest innovation technology to help you learn faster, personalize your lessons, and have more fun along the way. The intuitive method helps you truly pick up a new language naturally. No memorizing random vocab, no feeling lost. I love that Sapphire helps you focus on what you actually want to talk about.

[26:48] Whether that's football, travel, family, work, or your favorite hobbies. [26:52] Your time matters, so your learning should too. [26:55] If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire. [26:59] Crime Junkie listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. [27:04] You'll get unlimited access to all 25 Rosetta Stone languages, plus all the new Sapphire learning tools. Visit RosettaStone.com slash Crime Junkie to redeem your 20% off. That's RosettaStone.com slash Crime Junkie and start learning a language for real. When Internal Affairs brings him in to question him about this, he's like, I don't know where I got the name. And he kind of like tries to fall back on your questions. And he's like, maybe I found it on the paperwork in the glove box. And they're like, nope, nice try. [27:34] you already told us that there was no paperwork. And the more they questioned him, the more his story begins to fall apart. They end up issuing him another polygraph. And I don't know what questions they asked him the first time that he was able to pass. But this time, the questions are much more pointed. And they have a lot to do with what happened after the car was towed. Like, where did you get a date of birth to run a background check? Was he with you after the car was towed? [28:04] fails. Deputy Calkins insisted his last interaction with both men was at the Circle K, but after that failed polygraph, he stops cooperating with investigators and has not cooperated to this day. He was eventually fired from the sheriff's office for non-compliance with rules, regulations, untruthfulness, and conduct unbecoming of an officer, but they say they still

[28:34] Felipe Santos... [28:36] or Terrence Williams. [28:38] I mean, I think we're all on the same page that Culkin had something to do with it, right? Yeah, I don't think there's a theory, like a viable theory, where he actually drops these men off at the Circle K and never sees them again. Right, there's not like some Circle K killer in this particular town or anything. Right, I mean, his story, again, just doesn't even add up. He lied about knowing Terrence's names. Again, he still had Terrence's keys, which is super weird. So I think we can conclude that... [29:05] he did something to these men like but what is the something so what are the theories one is that he killed them like maybe he snapped and i go back to what that driver said who had an interaction with him after felipe santos's accident and he basically told her like i'm so sick and tired of dealing with these incidents where people don't have driver's license they don't have insurance because that is something that felipe and terrence had in common like terrence wasn't an illegal [29:35] driving uninsured, and he could have been sick and tired of it. And on top of that, they're both minorities. Right. Now, what I find surprising about this thing [29:43] this theory though, is that [29:45] he literally goes through this whole thing. I can see him. Maybe he snaps and does it to Felipe Santos. He goes through an entire IA investigation. They come up with nothing. And then right after that, he does the exact same thing. So risky. Right. And like he knows that IA is going to investigate. It's not like he got away with it the first time and nobody even questioned him. So if you're going to do this again, you don't even come up with a better story. And like he knows all of his calls are recorded

[30:15] batch so he knows they're going to check the circle k2 like again nothing nothing adds up i mean not even like a different story but like a different [30:25] Like... [30:25] motive or interaction. It's the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this guy's an officer. He knows how investigations work and he did nothing to try and cover his tracks. So if we find bodies later and it turns out that he did kill them, I'd almost have to wonder if there are more. Like if he was so sure that he'd get away with it, that even after an internal affairs investigation, he does it a couple of weeks later. Like that is bold. A hundred percent. The other theory that [30:55] actually heard it on another podcast who covered this case many, many years ago called The Trail Went Cold, is police have been known to do something called starlight tours. Have you ever heard of this? [31:07] I feel like I've heard the term. So it's really prevalent, I guess, in Canada with the Royal Mounted Police up there and aboriginals. And apparently what would happen there, and it's been known to happen in the US as well, is when there's somebody who is vulnerable, who maybe wouldn't come to police and report this kind of abuse, what police officers would do instead of arresting them, instead of writing up a report, is they take these people who've committed some kind of wrongdoing and they [31:37] into the middle of nowhere. And they basically just drop them off and they have to find their way home. And it puts them through a ton of hardship. Again, especially if you're talking about Canada when temperatures can get super, super low or Florida when it can get super, super hot. So...

[31:53] It's a theory in this case that maybe what he used to do is he was just so pissed off and annoyed with these people who were driving without licenses, who he didn't think should be here or he thought less of. So he would put them in his car, drive them miles and miles and miles away and leave them. And then something would happen to them to where they didn't make it home, whether they succumb to the elements, whether something sinister happened to them in between their and their home. [32:23] But that's why he kind of maybe was able to pass a polygraph sometimes is he technically didn't do anything to them, but he also left them in a very vulnerable situation. Oh, my God. This is still, though, surprising to me. [32:36] Because if Felipe Santos, if he took Felipe on a starlight tour, and then there was an internal affairs investigation, you think you'd clean up your act for a while and maybe not do that again. If you know that, like, oh gosh, I dropped this guy off in the middle of nowhere, and he actually might be dead. Yeah, right. But again, I don't know. [33:06] Terrence was with him in his car because did he have other stops that day? Was there just a chunk of time that he was missing? You would think it would give you some kind of radius to be like, okay, the men have to be within 20 miles, 100 miles. [33:20] But I don't know if that ever happened. So we don't know. I think we can all agree that he had something to do with it. But until a body is found, I think we're going to be left with just questions and no answers. And the actor, Tyler Perry, actually got really invested in this case. And the last I heard, he's still offering a $100,000 reward to anyone who has information on this case that can lead to either them being found or an arrest.

[33:50] in Tampa still has a team looking at this. They're not active, but the case file is still open. So you can call the Tampa FBI office. Last I heard that number was [redacted phone]. [34:14] Thanks guys so much for listening to our episode today. If you want to see some pictures, you can [34:20] blog crimejunkiepodcast.com or check us out on social we're on instagram as crimejunkiepodcast and on twitter at crimejunkiepod there's also so many awesome people in our facebook discussion group just go to facebook and search crimejunkiepodcast discussion group and don't forget if you want an extra fix you can go to patreon we release an extra mini episode for everybody today and remember after the credits we're going to play a bonus clip from our patreon episode [34:50] This episode of Crime Junkie was written and hosted by me, edited by David Flowers, mixed and mastered by Brit Prewatt, and all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [35:15] Like I mentioned, she was super religious and she had been there for a long time. So when she got to Stanford, she actually spent a lot of time at the Stanford Memorial Church. It was like her go-to when she would go pray or just to spend some extra time, relax. It was like very peaceful for her. And one evening in particular, it was around 1130, Arliss and Bruce decided to go for a walk around campus. Arliss wanted to go drop some mail off. She had a bunch of letters back to family and friends at home.

[35:45] which is like across campus and it was October so it was finally starting to get that like cool kind of crispness you only get in like October, November. Love it. Yes. So the pair walked for a while but as they walked and they've been talking they start to bicker about whose job it was to put air in the car's tires. Like exactly yeah exactly the kind of fight you have as a married couple. Like it doesn't really matter but you guys are just bickering. Yeah don't ask me how to load [36:15] We have that same one. Arliss got frustrated with her husband. And as they were nearing the church, actually, she's just like, listen, just give me some time alone. Like she wanted to go inside and pray. And Bruce is like, yeah, that's fine with me. So he leaves, walks off to go home. And their apartment is about a half a mile away from this church. And so Arliss goes into the church to pray. Bruce gets home and he does this thing that I think we all do, or at least I do. [36:45] this fight. Like, what points is he going to make? And like, I bet she's going to say this. Where is he going to stand? Oh, I'm, yeah, I'm all about this. Yeah, like, I'm going to come back with this. And I bet she'll say this. So he's like prepping for this fight. Meanwhile, back at the church, Arliss has walked in and there are two people already inside that notice her come in. She went and sat all the way at the front, knelt down to pray. And as the two people got up to leave, they notice a young man entering, maybe 20, 25 years old, with blonde hair parted

[37:15] the middle. Not too long after, at about 1210, the security guard pops his head in the church and made an announcement that the church was closing up like it did every night at midnight. He was running just a little bit behind, but he says when he comes in to make this announcement, he saw no one. No Arliss, no two people that had just left, no man with sandy blonde hair. Church was completely empty. [37:45] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now, and I've been listening for years. I think you'll love it too. Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts. Chameleon.